Home - by BigFurHat - February 23, 2013 - 19:30 America/New_York - 71 Comments
You heard me.
February 23rd, 2013
Ummmmm…..did she offer to call the customer a cab? Did she tell him if he drove she would call him in? Just reporting him after he drove off is absolutely wrong if she did not try to stop him first.
It happened to me once, and it was an off duty cop that called me in…he never said a word to me, just tried to get me a DUI…he failed miserabally! I was driving a blaze orange ’78 Bronco with my business names on the side…kinda hard not to find that.
OK, I watched it again, and need to adapt my reaction.
The bitch served the man more beer and tries to be a hero by calling the cops to get him arrested, not caring that he could have killed somebody before the cops found him, if they found him. She is no hero. I would have fired her in a heartbeat!
The guy was an ass for driving drunk, but she handled it very poorly.
Opportunity for feedback to the business whichever opinion you possess:
Address: 89 E Main St, Shelby, OH 44875
I’m with Kenny Sullivan. Why did she serve him? According to the after-story above, she could have been arrested for serving him. And the boss was correct, too. It’s basically a bar. If every bar had to worry about cops sitting outside to arrest their patrons, they would have no business. Seems like there should have been other steps taken before she called the police.
It is AGAINST THE LAW to serve an already intoxicated person! She’s a dimwit for serving him. Maybe he was a good tipper? When he left it was CYA. If he had gotten in an accident, she, and the establishment, could have been held liable. The manager was right to fire her. He just cited the wrong reason.
I watched it several times. He “was hammered” when she started her shift. But she served him anyway.
I agree with Kenny.
As a Past AL Commander I know guys get a little tight at times but there was always a buddy system, just like in the service. Never allow a Comrade to get in harm’s way. The commander must be an asshole for not having some plan for such occasions.
Call a buddy, call a cab, take away his keys, but don’t involve the police, ever, only as an absolute last resort, in such cases.
Then again Ohioians are not the brightest of God’s creatures.
I hope National swoops down on this Commander’s lucretive “business.”
I see and respect everyone’s points here, but consider that had this guy left the bar, had an accident that killed someone, the bartender could be found personally liable for serving him. Laws differ in different states, but there are any number of ways a bar and the bartender can be held personally liable for the damages caused by a drunk driver that they served alcohol to.
And the guy blew a .167??!! No way did he belong behind the wheel.
Another thing. Now I’m pissed. Were there any “comrades” at the bar when he left? Did they offer help? Did they protest her calling the police?
Then again was this guy such a prick that nobody really gave a shit about him? Which is still wrong.
I hope the National Commander takes some action on this disgrace.
Chieftan. She served him knowing he was “hammered”I know the type of bitch she is. Been there, seen it before. The queen bee warding over a bunch of senile old vets who tip well.
MT, not going to argue that point because I don’t know any of the people involved, so I cannot make that kind of subjective judgement about any of them.
What if he had hit your kid headon right after he left the bar?
BTW, I’m fixin to go to the Pub, just called the cab. I take a cab both ways. If the local cab quits running, the local Police take over and give bar patrons a FREE ride home…it is town policy…
remember when I said that cop that called me in failed….?
That’s how we fixed that problem….
Cheiftan, as per her story, she let him drive and THEN called the cops. She never tried to stop him..at least as she tells it.
Why didn’t she call someone to drive him home? In these small towns everyone knows everyone. Certainly someone could have done the guy a favor and drove him home.
Chieftain. My point is he should not have been allowed to leave the bar in that condition. Read my posts. And she should not have served him.
I tended bar for over 20 years. She served the guy when she could see he was already hammered, which A.) was stupid and 2.) made herself, and the establishment, as liable as the driver (in most States anyway) if he’d have caused an accident and/or hurt anyone driving home. Even though she shared liability at that point, calling the cops was lame and unnecessary. Should have been much easier to get a regular customer to take a cab. I’d have even paid the fare myself.
That said, I’d have fired her on the spot just for being a dumbass.
Also, I think there’s likely more to the story. No experienced bartender just up and calls the cops on a regular patron like that without some other motivating factor. Like the guy had been belligerent or she had some other problem with him before.
We is all adults and shouldn’t be mothered by the government or whomever……..
J Robinette B
I would like to share a somewhat personal experience with you – my fellow board members- about drinking and driving.
Some of us may have had concerns about potential brushes with the authorities on our way home from a social event over the years. Today’s strict enforcement policies make this a more important issue than ever.
A couple of nights ago I was out for an evening with friends and had a couple of cocktails and then a couple glasses of some rather nice red wine. Knowing that I may have been slightly over the limit, I did something I’ve never done before – I took a cab home. Sure enough I passed a police road block – but since it was a cab they waved it past.
I arrived home safely without incident – which was a real surprise – as I have never driven a cab before and am not sure where I got it, or what to do with it now that it’s in my garage.
Do you think the fact that she said he was an officer of the AL was why she served him?
February 24th, 2013
She probably shouldn’t of served him but at the end of the day we are the ones responsible for our action. This jackass drank enough to blow a .167 which is more than twice the legal limit. Maybe she should have tried to call him a cab or get someone there to take him home but at what point did she become his keeper? Yes she did serve him a beer but said she tried to throttle him back and we don’t know how succesful she was. Hell, for all we know he only had one more beer before he decided to get into his car to play a little mortality roulette. She shouldn’t have been fired and that fellow that runs that post should be reviewing with his staff the rules regarding serving or reporting drunks.
The conservatives on this thread passing the buck of responsibility for one’s own actions onto everyone but the drunk is disappointing.
And the owner said he fired her because involving the police is “bad for business.”
He didn’t say anything about all the other factors everyone is bringing up.
I hate public drunks.
I hate drunken drivers.
I hate excuses for drunken drivers.
I hate people who think drunken drivers, or public drunks, are even remotely humorous. I always thought Foster Brooks’ act was the most unfunny shit imaginable. It’s a s funny as Cheech and Chong’s stoned act, or the Hippy Dippy Weatherman.
And I hate people that think you’re some sort of traitor if you get a drunk driver arrested.
I have a regret in life. I was hit from behind in a parked car. The guy drove away and then passed out and ran into the sidewalk.
When I got to the car it was the older brother of a friend of mine.
He was hammered. I agreed to not call the cops and let him sleep it off.
The best thing I could have done for everyone was have his ass locked up.
The moment you take your car keys with you and head out to drink, fully knowing you’re going to drive home, no one is at fault but you.
The bartender is not the villain here.
The drunk and the bar owner are far worse.
Boobie the Rocket Dog
“…and I would do it again.”
I doubt it, lady. You are marked. You’ll never tend another bar.
Not only did she call the police, she called the TV station, too? I think that says where her head was.
All the intermediate steps mentioned here were possible, but none were done.
There’s something missing in this whole story: a motive. She had an axe to grind, as did the TV station. The police chief just said what he had to say for the camera.
I’m with the other vets here on this.
We being judged now?
Mary Jane Anklestraps
I didn’t see her duct tape him to the bar and force him to drink beers. lol
I would’ve told him I wouldn’t serve him anymore beer, if I were her. But in the end, it’s HIS fault whatever happens to him and I wouldn’t take responsibility for his actions. I’m not his mom or his nurse. Oh and if I got fired, and I thought it was unfair, I’d have called the TV, the newspapers and a lawyer. Just how it goes.
Oh hey. What SCR North said. lol.
You have no idea what the facts of this story are and you are all calling her a crunt for having the audacity to call the cops.
You’re all making crap up, so I can play too.
This guy is a regular. He usually stays until he sobers up. She served the officer one more and planned on cutting him off.
The next thing she sees is the guy driving out of the parking lot.
She calls the cops.
There. Plausible. Fits the story. How is she a villain?
You’re all acting like when you go out to drink- in your cars, I might add, that there is a responsibility of others to be your custodian and drunky day care worker.
I don’t care what the law is regarding the responsibility of the bar after a homicide occurs.
All of the responsibility lies with the drunk.
You’re acting like the people who blame the pushers after someone OD’s.
We being judged now?
what does this mean?
Conservatives demanding a nanny state. No, not the government, other citizens.
This is why I drink alone. Nobody to hassle me. People suck.
99th Squad Leader
The bartender has seen a lot of drunks and drinkers leave that bar. She probably didn’t want to have a death by a drunk driver on her conscience.
It’s a “Catch 22″ situation, if she refused to serve the guy drinks, she’s fired. If she serves the guy drinks and he gets drunk and kills someone on the road, she’s fired.
Come on folks, think of your families. Granted she may have been over zealous-should have suggested a cab first, but she might have saved someone’s life that night.
Who cares about an embarrassed drunk. This guy probably needed a wake up call.
I agree that it’s primarily the drunk’s fault for being drunk, but because he was drinking in a licensed establishment the people that served him and the license holder are also liable for his actions after he gets ripped in their bar. It’s not the same as drinking at home and then getting behind the wheel. Legally, and morally, everyone that over served him ,especially after he was visibly hammered, are responsible for his actions after he leaves the joint. Seems like he should have been cut off before she even got there and she definitely had the legal responsibility to cut him off herself. Everyone there is guilty for not pouring the drunk into a cab, but by calling the cops she was being a jackass. She had her own agenda.
People who are that irresponsible with their on-premise liquor serving licenses should be locked up right along with the drunk drivers.
Fur. Conservatives do not deny help to those in need. The guy needed help. This is not a bar-bar. It is an American Legion Post where veterans congregrate to swap yarns, brag, lie, and yes drink, and yes, occasionally get drunk. A friend will not let a friend drink and drive. Where were his comrades? That’s my point. The bartenter is an asshole and the Commander is a bigger one. The drunk is, well, just a drunk. WTF? He should not have been allowed to leave the Post in that condition
On my watch I assure you it would not happen this way.
Greyscape. You are never alone brother. Depending on your time zone. I imbibe from 6 to 9pm EDT. At home and under the watchful eye of Mrs. Moe. “Another one?”
My first thoughts on this, something stinks.
The war on drunk driving has been a successful model for the gubmint to grab cash and dismiss personal liberty. Know who else used checkpoints? The fucking nazi’s did.
The same model is being used to push global warming, the anti smoking campaign and soon –>guns.
And the “law and order republicans” (the brainless sect of the GOP), who cant fathom that the cops are not always the good guys and buy into more intrusions disguised as a concern for the public safety. How many cops get arrested for drunk driving, drug abuse or domestic violence? The gang in blue take care of each other. Fuck the civilians.
Blame the drunk for not having his shit together, and punish his ass if he hurts an innocent.
The bartender is a SNITCH.
The Post CO is caught in a bad spot and will take shit from both sides.
That post needs to have a meeting of all its members who use the canteen and get a plan to avoid a shit storm like this from ever happening again.
Fur. Conservatives do not deny help to those in need.>>>>
Yes, and the need at that moment was to call the cops on a guy who drives drunk.
You see, that is helping EVERYONE ELSE who might be killed by this guy.
“You have no idea what the facts of this story are”
You are correct. All I have to go on is what the bartender said. She said she called the cops, but never said she tried to stop him beforehand. Based on the information presented in the video, I concluded that she is absolved of all wrong because she called the police to cover her ass. Once she called the police, she became a good, caring and wonderful person.
I see what you mean…why do what is the right thing when you can call the cops to do it for you?
Fur. No. The need at the moment was to get him home safe without involving the frigging government.
The war on drunk driving has been a successful model for the gubmint to grab cash and dismiss personal liberty. Know who else used checkpoints? The fucking nazi’s did.>>>>
Grab cash from who? Drunk drivers? Last time I checked you have to be impaired to be locked up. I wouldn’t consider that a cash grab.
dismiss personal liberty.>>>
The freedom to what? Be drunk in public? Is that what the Gadsden Flag represents, the right to weave on the highway?
Know who else used checkpoints? The fucking nazi’s did.>>>>
You’re really getting worked up here, to the point where you’re railing about stuff that isn’t even in the story.
and punish his ass if he hurts an innocent.>>>
Please don’t tell me that you are part of the crowd who believes drunk driving is okay as long as a person hasn’t “hurt an innocent” yet.
You weave over the double yellow line (you know who else had double yellow lines? The Nazis) and weave back in, no one was hurt. A cop who witnesses this shouldn’t “punish the guy” because he hasn’t “hurt an innocent”?
If he pulls him over it’s a “cash grab”?
Drunk in public is against the law, as it should be.
“And the owner said he fired her because involving the police is “bad for business.””
no, that is what she said the owner said. Only one side is presented in this story.
Fur. No. The need at the moment was to get him home safe without involving the frigging government.>>>>
So you want the civilian Nanny State to take responsibility?
Let me be very clear, the guy that drove away at twice the legal limit is a freaking jerk asswipe.
I see what you mean…why do what is the right thing when you can call the cops to do it for you?>>>
The right thing is to have drunk drivers locked up. I can’t do that, that is called kidnapping.
So, I would have to call the police.
Immediately, when one reads stories like this you put yourself in all the player’s positions.
If I’m the drunk, and I was a shitweasel, I blame the bartender.
I’m not a shitweasel.
Did she ever say she tried to stop him?
May I make a suggestion for all the drinkers who have ever sat down at a bar with the mission of having their minds altered and had car keys in their pocket?
Do one of two things. Upon entering the bar, hand the car keys to the bartender.
go out today and order a tombstone, inscribe on it, “It was everyone else’s fault,” just in case it is needed.
And if this is going to get political, the conservative viewpoint is that you are responsible for yourself, no one else.
And I’m not responsible for you, even if I’m a bartender.
I find it hilarious that you’re railing about the nanny state, yet seem to be hiding behind a law (written or unwritten) that states the bar and the bartender is responsible for the drunk.
A shitweasel libtard would love that law.
The reality of life is that we are responsible for ourselves. Government and their cheerleaders will try to place responsibility on anyone but the individual, but that will never change reality.
Sometimes you have to make tough choices when you see someone who does not take responsibility for themselves. In the case of drunk driving, that choice may be to cut them off from booze or drugs, drive them home yourself, report the offender to police so they can take legal action, or leave someone in jail when they call you to bail them out.
Each incident is different and you can discuss details until the end of the world, but the person ultimately responsible is the person who picks up a drink/drug without a plan to get home.
I am NOT absolving the drunk of his actions! And if I am the player, I took a cab TO the bar, and I can’t drive home.
Did she ever say she tried to stop him?>>>
Don’t know. It’s not her responsibility.
And, as I stated above, if otherwise rugged individualists are going to hide behind a terrible law (which states that the bar is as culpable as the drunk) then you’re just being hypocrite conservatives that might have drinking problems, or at the very least, sympathize with drunk drivers.
Let me be clear, I never stated that the bar or bartender was responible for the drunk driver.
Also, if you decide to go to a bar and alter your mind with your keys in your pocket, don’t buy yourself a tombstone…find an innocent kid and buy them one.
Why is it not her responsibility?
I was at a wedding where one of the Aunts was a no show. She was coming in from 4 hours away.
At the wedding I get a tap on the shoulder from a waiter. He says I have a phone call.
I go into the kitchen and it’s the woman. She’s in jail. She wants me to help bail her out so that her husband wouldn’t find out that she was driving drunk.
I said, “sure.”
I hung up and called her husband and told him his wife was in jail because she was drunk driving.
I did that because I didn’t want to give her the opportunity to try and get someone else to go along with her plan.
I also went back to the wedding and told everyone at the wedding why she wasn’t there. I had known she had a drinking problem, this wasn’t the first incident.
Many people at the wedding called me an asshole. Mostly people who were in the drunky fraternity.
I’d love to call her and invite her to this thread and get her opinion, but I can’t.
She burned her own house down, with her in it, because she passed out while making soup.
At her funeral I made a point of steely-eyeing all the assholes who called me an asshole.
And not to disappoint them, in asshole fashion, I said to a few of them, “better her than some family with kids on the highway.”
Fur. Grab cash from who? In New York State it costs between $6000 to $10000 to clear up a DWI charge. Then there is ten years probation. Any moving violation within that ten year period means loss of license. Is it stupid to drink and drive? Yes. Do assholes still drink and drive? Yes. Would I allow a friend to drive drunk? No.
>>Why is it not her responsibility?>>
So it IS McDonald’s fault that there are fat people?
>>> Fur. Grab cash from who? In New York State it costs between $6000 to $10000 to clear up a DWI charge. Then there is ten years probation. Any moving violation within that ten year period means loss of license.>>>
That is NOT a cash grab. A cash grab is a seat belt law.
This is called PUNISHMENT for breaking the law.
The only way I would characterize this as a cash grab is that the government doesn’t revoke your license for first offense, enabling you to repeat your offense.
You set the tone by wanting the bar owner dead. And eating one too many Big Macs is not a threat to others. If you are in the business of selling booze, with that comes certain responsibilities.
Fur, I had to refuse to bail out someone when he called in the middle of the night. I told him no, he had to live with his choices and hung up. I cried the rest of the night.
It’s been 15 years and he hasn’t touched a drop of booze. Our friendship was tested and are not speaking much, but at least he is still alive and so is anyone he would have killed.
I would lose a friend over that.
I would lose a friend over that.>>
Drinking and driving is among the worst things a citizen can do – period.
Right up there is believing that anyone that “involves the police” when there is a drunk about to take the wheel is “a snitch.”
It matters little that it was the bartender who made the call.
Even if the story was that the guy got up to go to the bathroom, and then left with no one knowing, and the bartender saw him driving away and called the cops, there are people here that would still call the bartender a bitch, a snitch, a traitor, etc.
That’s a fact. I’ve seen it, heard it before and am well aware of this fraternity. And it’s rearing its ugly head on this thread.
Sure, go ahead and just twist the facts any way you want them to be, and lable anyone that disagrees with you as being a member of the ‘fraternity’.
Did you even watch the video?
You set the tone by wanting the bar owner dead.>>
I set it properly. The bar owner is an asshole. You said that what he said about it being “bad for business” was the “claim” of the bartender. Right in the video (the one *I* didn’t watch) it states that this was the guy’s statement to the news outlet.
This is from the print version -
“He said, ‘I’m going to have to fire you, because it’s bad for business to have a bartender that will call the cops,’” DeVito said.
The commander of the post would not make a comment to 10TV News on camera but said that while DeVito did the right thing morally, she did not do the right thing for the business.
“If every patron who comes in here has to worry about the cops waiting for them when they leave, the place would be empty,” said Mic Hubbard.
When I used to go to bars to see rock bands, the cops would always be in the parking lot looking for kids leaving the bar drunk and getting into cars. I’d hear people calling them “pigs” and acting as if they were the enemy.
And then I’d see thousands of people pour out for funerals of kids that were killed driving drunk, hysterically crying like they were taken by cancer. They’d put flowers around the tree they ran into, like a shrine.
YOU CAN’T FIX STUPID.
And eating one too many Big Macs is not a threat to others. If you are in the business of selling booze, with that comes certain responsibilities.>>>
Liquor is not an animate object. It sits in a glass in front of you. Someone may have sold it to you, but ultimately what you do with it is your own decision.
I assume you’re against holding McDonald’s responsible for fat people.
I assume you’re against holding cigarette companies responsible for users getting cancer.
I assume you’re against holding gun store owners responsible for people using guns to murder people.
I assume where your common sense twains is when you demand this symbiotic relationship between you and your bartender exists.
You want the right to be able to go out in public and drink and then hold society responsible for making sure you, and the poor souls in your wake, get home safely.
And one of those ways CANNOT BE TO CALL THE POLICE. EVER.
(also, when someone is debating, and they say “you,” it doesn’t mean YOU. It means the metaphorical you.)
Let’s put this as plain as I can put it.
Drunk driving is against the law, and should be.
A bar owner puts in a parking lot.
Do I need to go on?
I don’t demand a symbiotic relationship with a bartender. I just don’t see it as heroic to call the cops on a drunk driver when she probably had many other options to do what was ultimately the right thying to do and not let him get behind the wheel in the first place.
Danica is on the pole, so I’m outta here…
The civilian nanny state? So your car battery goes dead and you call a friend for a jump? Civilian nanny state? You get drun k and a friend drives you home safely. Civilian nanny state? Wow that’s a twist.
Danica is on the pole, so I’m outta here…>>>
Is she drunk?
The civilian nanny state? So your car battery goes dead and you call a friend for a jump? Civilian nanny state? You get drun k and a friend drives you home safely. Civilian nanny state? Wow that’s a twist.>>>
The drunk didn’t call a friend. He made no arrangements in advance. He went to a bar with his car keys.
I’ve had friends who think it’s my duty to be their clean-up man. HAD is the operative word. I am very willing to help out an otherwise responsible person who is in need. I’m not so eager to help the “friend” who takes the chance of driving out to Long Island in his jalopy because he felt like having a good time.
Some readers here are suggesting that people have some sort of duty to make sure the law never catches up with a drunk driver, and if they make a decision that the best thing to do is to call the police they are some sort of snitch or a turncoat or a scumbag.
People are not always going to be around to make sure a drunk doesn’t selfishly, irresponsibly and stupidly take an innocent person’s life. So when you ARE around, maybe the best thing you can do for “your friend” is to get him arrested.
Being part of a system to enable someone’s poor choices to continue is something I would never participate in,
because, if I read in the paper that that person killed some people I would feel that I contributed to that homicide.
(It’s a homicide, by the way.)
Moe, needing a ride because of a dead battery has nothing to do with driving drunk. That person can still walk home or get into another car without being drunk.
Going by what you’re saying, why didn’t the drunk guy call a friend himself?
Drunks don’t call friends because they never think they are drunk. That’s why on abservant friend or a good bartender will make the suggestion. That’s enough for me. I’m off the the club for bull session and a few pops.
MJA. I wa s referring to the civilian nanny. A friend according to BFH
Moe, before he goes out drinking. Why doesn’t he call BEFORE?
And the guy in need of a jump is still not drunk.
And HE called the friend. Not the other way around.
And the friend he called doesn’t have to show up to help.
Not a nanny situation.
And, by the way.
That law about bartenders being responsible for the actions of a drunk is something only a progtard could dream up.
There are bars that have more than one bartender, and more than one bar.
Someone could be approaching the legal limit to drive and get “one for the road” (perhaps a double) and have the alcohol take effect in their car as they are driving.
How is this the bartender’s responsibility?
By allowing the state to transfer partial culpability over to the salesperson (gleefully, it seems, by people who want to spread the guilt) you are running the risk of having bars be shut down for good.
Let me explain.
The state makes a law, a bad one, and then allows me, the dupe, to poke flaws in the law (like a laid out above). They then say, “you’re right,” throw up their hands and declare, “the only thing we can do now is shut the bars down.”
That’s how the nanny state operates.
The only thing that defeats this line of thinking is to always adhere to the principle that an individual is ultimately responsible for their own actions. That way you never have to worry about some “cunt” bartender betraying the Loyal Fraternity of Drunk Drivers.
lol Fur, Vegas would be shut in a blink if they blamed bartenders and bars for everything a drunk does. And it’s possible you could have had a beer or two before leaving the house. Is it you family’s fault if your get caught leaving the house drunk?
Or if you live alone, maybe it’s the cat’s fault.
Damn you Fluffy! You KNEW I was messed up when I left the house!
February 26th, 2013
Been too busy to jump back in, but while I have a minute I will try to clear up a misconception.
Grab cash from who? Drunk drivers?
Federal funding ie. tax dollars given to MADD? The fed funding to states and local communities to combat drunk driving?
When you give the federal government permission to impact your daily existence, you are giving them the green light to disregard the Constitution. The states and locals are the primary responders we dont need more bureaucrats.
Know who else used checkpoints? The fucking nazi’s did.>>>>
Yes I get worked up a bit BFH, perhaps you should re-read your own take and change that to “WE” all get worked up. Wishing the post commander dead?
As much as you hate drunks, believe me -YOU HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT MY HATE FOR SUBSTANCE ABUSERS. Punish his ass means turning him over to the friends and family of his victim and let them fix his problem. I am currently forced to watch a close friend die in front of me. Give me a phone number and I will send you a picture that will make you vomit. I played CYO ball with him, a friend of 30 years. Now we are not going to talk about our kids or future grandkids because I have to start making arrangements to bury him. Tired of burying people, fucking drunks and heroin addicts that I grew up with.
We will have to agree to disagree on this issue, you know how I feel about snitching. The genesis of my rant is about the disparity of the “Just Us” system. When will the laws be equally enforced and we see the politicians and bureaucrats held to the same standard as us?
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