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Home - by - January 9, 2013 - 15:20 America/New_York - 44 Comments

h/t Kpark

 

» 44 Comments

  1. Irish

    January 9th, 2013

    AWWWWWWW :)

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  2. fullcirclethinker

    January 9th, 2013

    I shudder to think what Obamacare will do with this in a few short years!!

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  3. hanoverfist

    January 9th, 2013

    Kpark got the same email I just got.;-0

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  4. bitterclinger

    January 9th, 2013

    That little boy looks like he wants nothing to do with that dog.

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  5. Noodengr

    January 9th, 2013

    fullcircle. ( great name by the way) you are way too close to the truth with that thought.
    but I am sure the dog will get great care.

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  6. fullcirclethinker

    January 9th, 2013

    @Noodengr: I am sure you are right about the dog. Reminds me of a bumper sticker slogan:

    Be a hero, save a whale
    Save a baby, go to jail

    All I can say is “Come quickly Lord Jesus!”

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  7. John D

    January 9th, 2013

    I have found the new feature at the top to be personally aggravating- to the point I was about to remove site from my bookmarks.

    And then you go and give us this…………….
    I guess I’ll stick around!

    Thanks!

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  8. Kairn

    January 9th, 2013

    Contrary to ya’ll misinterpreting this video as being awwww inducing – I found it to be cringe worthy and I fear for that poor little boy.

    Whoever was filming this video is an idiot for allowing that big dog to behave in a dominant fashion over that helpless baby. As soon as that huge paw was weighing heavily and dominantly on that baby’s shoulder, that dog needed to be schooled. Even the sweetest dog is still a dog. And that means it possesses canine genetics and that means any dog is wired to constantly question, challenge and/or exploit its position in a pack no matter if the pack is all dogs or the pack is humans.

    Actually, any size dog and small children need to be monitored much better than I saw in this video. Even that Down Syndrome baby had enough sense to be uncomfortable with his situation. Let’s hope this poor kid stays safe by the grace of God. Because we know at least one adult has absconded their duty to both child and dog.

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  9. scribble

    January 9th, 2013

    @Kairn – I don’t own a dog so I can’t speak much for their behavior, but I don’t think that dog was being dominant at all. He just wanted some affection from the child and was acting submissive when doing so – on his stomach rather than standing and towering above him, rolling over, etc. As for the child, not everyone welcomes the affection of a dog.

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  10. Brooke

    January 9th, 2013

    The dog was not being dominant. Large dogs like to ‘touch’ with their paws to invite attention. It is a supplication. I own a Great Dane who is a AKC Canine Good Citizen, and I absolutely would not tolerate a 130lb dog ‘asserting’ itself!

    Clearly Kairn doesn’t know the body language of a large dog. That dog was totally submissive and the person behind the camera was right there, obviously supervising. Also, the child did not look a bit uncomfortable.

    That kid would be more at risk with a Chihuahua.

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +11

     
  11. WhoreDildo "Che" Rivera

    January 9th, 2013

    Nice doggie!

    Heartwarming video that should go viral, but it’s not controversial enough. Anyway, my heart goes out to them both!!

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  12. Bad Brad

    January 9th, 2013

    Kairn, Obviously a cat owner huh. Retrievers make great baby sitters. The dog would never hurt that kid. And further more when the kid gets a little older that dog will be his best friend.

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  13. Bad Brad

    January 9th, 2013

    That kid would be more at risk with a Chihuahua.

    Or a cat.

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  14. Kairn

    January 9th, 2013

    scribble,
    Any time a dog sets its paw like that on a human, another dog, another animal or an object, it is exhibiting a dominant action over the thing that is underfoot. To go unchallenged (which can be as simple as immediately removing the paw or giving a verbal command to remove the paw) sends the dog a message that the object is now in a submissive state to said dog.

    A characteristic of docility bred into this Labrador had it lay down in a submissive posture at times. But it also expressed the true canine characteristic of testing the boundary of where it and this toddler resided within the pack hierarchy.

    Too many adults today have become lackadaisical about monitoring interactions between dogs and very small children. I love children and I love dogs. However, common sense should be the order of the day when allowing little babies and toddlers to closely interact with ANY dog.

    If you want to know how deadly this situation can be look at this recent news story. And convince me these parents aren’t stupid and their dog just wanted to “play” with the baby. And then these same parents allowed their other child to be mauled a year later:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2259607/Couples-young-son-mauled-pet-dog-year-month-old-baby-brother-killed-dismembered-familys-rescue-retriever.html

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  15. Kairn

    January 9th, 2013

    No, I am not a cat owner. I’ve been a dog owner all my life. From small to large. I never underestimate any dog, including my own. I never underestimate any breed of dog no matter how docile the breed is supposed to be. I get along with dogs very well thank you because I understand dog mentality.

    All dogs, no matter the breed are capable of biting a person for whatever reason. The kindest and gentlest of dogs have seriously hurt or killed toddlers because the toddler pinched the dog too vigorously or fell on top of the dog. The dog certainly did not mean to be so vicious under those circumstances, but was just reacting to serious pain.

    This is why my main point is that adults need to be much more vigilant and pro active when it comes to placing babies and toddlers in close proximity to any dog. It only takes one quick snap and a toddlers face or fingers are seriously damaged by a dog bite.

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  16. Bad Brad

    January 9th, 2013

    I was raised by wolves and I turned out ok.

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +11

     
  17. Kairn

    January 9th, 2013

    @Bad Brad,
    Wolves. Yeah right.

    Look, I knew I was going to get flack here for my take on this video. I don’t shy away from controversy especially when it comes to how ridiculous people have gotten about dogs. Most especially when it comes to keeping babies safe from dog bites.

    When children get older and are more masterful with their own movements and communication abilities, they are a much better fit with safely being around a dog with not so much adult supervision. That is when I will enjoy those awwww moments when a dog and a child have forged a good bond which hopefully lasts a long time (dog living to a ripe old age. I love old dogs. My last lived to age 17).

    Thumb up +1

     
  18. Noelegy

    January 9th, 2013

    The dog was VERY sweet, but I definitely got the feeling from the child at times that he was trying to back away from her.

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  19. Noelegy

    January 9th, 2013

    @Brooke, our 100-lb Husky completely won over the vet techs at our vet’s office by offering her paw to everyone. :)

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  20. Brooke

    January 9th, 2013

    Again, Kairn clearly does not understand large/giant breed dog body language.

    No owner here, I’m willing to bet, treats their dog like some kind of furry child.

    Once again, the paw thing was not domination. It was supplication. The dog was being submissive to the child, most likely because the parent has asserted him/herself as the dominant one, and trained the dog properly.

    Also, I firmly believe that a well trained large dog knows just how large it is and how much physicality they can get away with. Once again, as a Great Dane owner, Pitt Bull owner (and I had a Rottie as a teen) my dogs are completely docile with children and elderly folks. They know they can rough around with my strapping husband, WHEN HE INVITES it. When my kids want to roughhouse, or play tug-of-war, they pull and play lightly.

    The owner in the video was clearly very responsible. As was the very well-trained canine.

    I would surmise that Kairn has a personal grudge or irrational fear of large dogs, and wants to convert everyone to that viewpoint.

    Kinda like libs with big, scary guns.

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  21. Stranded in Sonoma

    January 9th, 2013

    I saw a TV program about wolves where a couple raised 4 wolf pups whose mother was killed. The couple had a 70 pound German Shepard female that cared for the pups. Even when fully grown, the wolves (who seriously outweighed the Shepard) were still quite submissive to the dog. They would never make eye contact with the dog and would paw at her to get her to recognize them and show them attention.

    The dog in this video, extending a paw and touching the child is just doing more of the same. She is asking for attention. Remember, at the beginning of the video, the child moves closer to the dog. The dog responds with a touch, basically asking, “Since you moved close, can we be friends?” The child moves away because he is unsure. There was nothing threatening there and the dog is doing what she has probably done with her master for many years; be submissive and request attention. If the attention is returned, it’s okay to play.

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  22. Bad Brad

    January 9th, 2013

    Brooke: You had me at retriever but lost me at Pitt Bull. I’ve seen them go off like a switch. But we’ve beat that subject to death here.

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  23. John Cooper

    January 9th, 2013

    Stranded writes:

    The dog in this video, extending a paw and touching the child is just…asking for attention.

    Exactly. We have an attention hound just like that one. She just wants us to rub her belly when she puts her paw on us like that.

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  24. Kairn

    January 9th, 2013

    @Brooke,
    It appears you are willfully ignoring every one of my posts explaining my viewpoint about intermingling small children with any breed of dog without proper adult supervision.

    Had you done so, and comprehended what I am trying to convey here, you would see that I mentioned I have been the owner of dogs from small to large (German Shepard sized). I also clearly mentioned I love children AND dogs.

    What I have clearly indicated here is the fact that far too many so-called dog owners are completely derelict in their duty to properly train, discipline and socialize their dogs. These types of people often allow very small children to be put in dangerous situations with untrained dogs, with some times disastrous consequences for both child and the dog (who are usually euthanized).

    By continuing to ignore the reasonable points I am making here about responsible dog ownership and how poorly a good percentage of American’s have become with raising and owning good dogs, and insisting that I know nothing of big dogs, or I am afraid of big dogs, or I have some personal agenda against big dogs, is just utter bull crap on your part.

    You have your own agenda and you are now coming here to personally attack me with false claims. How sporting is that, Brooke?

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  25. Unruly Refugee

    January 9th, 2013

    What I know for a fact is that the dog in that video can sense that little boy’s emotions. I think the dog is just trying to help the boy feel better or have some fun.

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  26. Unruly Refugee

    January 9th, 2013

    Easy now ladies, this is a beautiful thing, ain’t it?

    (and I even hate the Beach Boys)

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  27. Kairn

    January 9th, 2013

    @Brooke and others,
    You want to deny that a dog, any dog who settles its paw on a human and leaves it there is not displaying a dominant canine trait, then go argue with these the folks at the website I offer below. I have copied here only six dominant canine traits out of the longer list you will find on the link above that are pertinent to the video we have been discussing about the baby and the dog.

    http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/dominatebehaviorsdogs.htm

    “Below are some common behaviors dogs display when they believe they are above humans. Keep in mind that a dog does not have to display all of these behaviors to be in a dominant frame of mind. Sometimes an alpha dog will only display a few of the behaviors at random times, depending on what the dog decides it feels like doing at any given moment. Smarter dogs tend to challenge the pack order more than dogs of average or below-average intelligence.”

    1. Pushing a toy into you or pawing in order to get you to play with them
    2. Jumping or putting their paws on humans (without a command to do so).
    3. Nudging you to be petted
    4. Persistence about being on top, be it a lap or stepping on your foot
    5. Licking (giving kisses) in a determined and focused manner
    6. Guarding a human from others approaching. People like to call it “protecting” but it’s actually “claiming”—dog owns you.

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  28. joe6pak

    January 9th, 2013

    One thing I know for sure is that if anyone presented a threat to that little boy his dog would be on them white on rice. I’ve been around a lot of dogs and this one was not trying to dominate.

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  29. Nutjob

    January 9th, 2013

    Most dogs love interreaction, and the dog was being submissive in every sense of the word. Domination in when a dog asserts itself and stands above you.

    He knew enough not to even think about play biting, which dogs love and is the ultimate interreaction to a dog. The only fault on the dogs part is dogs sometimes don’t realize how big they are or how fragile people can be.

    I trust my big dog with the grandkids, but I still never let them be alone just because of a potential accident in relation to the dogs size.

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  30. DaveVA

    January 9th, 2013

    Oh my, Kairn needs a cup of tea.

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  31. Bad Brad

    January 9th, 2013

    Kairn: Your one my favorites, but you don’t speak dog well at all. I should disclose the only dogs I’ve ever owned are either Chesapeakes (first one I owned saved my wife) and Labs.

    Joe6Pack nailed it. I have a little yellow pup right now. Dog is to cool.

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  32. Kairn

    January 9th, 2013

    @To all,
    I came here to give a reasoned and intelligent opinion about dog behavior and how that oftentimes relates to poor decisions some dog owners exhibit when it comes to interactions between dogs and babies and/or toddlers. This includes dogs of all sizes, all breeds and all ages. I have not specifically called out any one breed of dog, nor any size dog.

    I have not made any personal and disparaging references to how any of you raise and train your own dogs. Or whether any of you may have or don’t have good dog sense. The opinions I have declared here have no bearing on any of you personally. My opinions here are but a reflection of my take on poor dog ownership in general.

    Yet, all I have gotten here is personal attacks by some of you and no reasonable discourse from the rest of you about whether you agree or disagree with all or some of the points I have made here on this thread.

    In essence, most of you here have actually done the canine equivalent of trying to gain dominance over me because you don’t like my opinions. But none of you has come here and offered any concrete proof that dogs of any breed and size, and of any level of training have never mauled or killed little children when adults absconded from their duty of being good custodians of both dogs and children.

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  33. Bad Brad

    January 9th, 2013

    Kairn, There’s only one that making it personal. (Freaken Pitt Bulls, I hate em) Clearly, you need some time in a duck blind with a quality retriever. It’s bitchen. We all appreciate your opinion. I for one have just had different experiences with mutts. I’ve had some of my best friends do some amazing shit.

    First Chessie, Bud, so named because when he was a pup and I was washing my truck I would normally have a bottle of Budweiser on the ground someplace and that dog would grab it by the neck and drain it. He was our no shit retriever. Tuffest dog in the duck blind, and at the same time the neighbor hoods favorite kid sitter during the neighborhood summer parties. Those kids including mine would crawl all over that dog. Pulling his ears, pulling his tail, slapping him in the unmentionables. That mutt use to look at me like, “Dude, you owe me big”. He wouldn’t let any adult except for me or my wife get close to any of the kids. Had some guy “talk” his way into my house one day when I was at work. Just the wife at home. He ask to use the rest room, disappears. She calls me in a panic. I was about to tell her let the dog in, but I heard him going ape shit and crashing through the slider. That dog knew. I could go on with a bunch of other shit. Bottom line is I trust retrievers more than people.

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  34. Bad Brad

    January 9th, 2013

    Sorry to be so long winded, could of been worse.

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  35. Menderman

    January 9th, 2013

    Kairn, an important thing to look at in dog behavior is more than just placing the paw on the toddler, that can be a rewarded behavior in this particular dog…it always has been in my Labs. If mine is chastized for bad behavior, they tend to ‘combat crawl’ to me and place their paw on my foot, roll over and beg forgiveness, and then rewarded for apologizing. Look at the vid again and look at the ears, tail, back hair, muscle tension etc. This dog is showing zero aggression. I appears to me that the dog is begging for love and attention, not exhibiting dominance.

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  36. Kairn

    January 9th, 2013

    Brad,
    I appreciate what you are trying to do here – calming the waters with a feel good story.

    I wholeheartedly agree with you about the awesomeness of dogs. I can’t imagine my life without a dog being a part of it. My present dog brings so much humor and joy to my days. He is very precious to me. But I never lose sight that he is and always will be a dog. He is not my child. He is not a toy. He possesses a canine spirit which I have skillfully molded into a very lovely, well-behaved, very friendly to adults and children kind of dog. Oh, and he is un neutered too.

    Despite the fact I feel almost 100% certain he would never bite any one, I am extra prudent regarding my dog around children. The risk to cherubic little faces and little fingers is just too much to risk by me being lackadaisical about “oh, my dog would never, ever bite any one under any circumstance.”

    I am happy getting my dogs through life to a ripe old age without them hurting anyone or anything because I am cautious and prudent. Just the way I roll. Nothing personal to those who take umbrage with my take on how to be a responsible of owner. I’m happy, my dog is happy. No one is bitten.

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  37. Bad Brad

    January 9th, 2013

    Kairn, No feel good story here. That was the truth.

    Last Chessie, I had to put down, cancer. That mutt was a smiler. Ever seen one of them? I used to get home at night and that dog would make my freaken day. He would actually smile ear to ear.

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  38. Kairn

    January 10th, 2013

    There seems to have been some cherry picking regarding my posts. Oh well. Ya’ll want to see what you want to see. Ya’ll want to believe what you want to believe.

    I am not going to change my original viewpoint about that dog momentarily exhibiting a dominant behavior over that little boy. I know exactly when that dog was being dominate and know exactly when he was being submissive. My disappointment still resides with whoever was filming that scene, not the dog!!!!!

    @Brad,
    I meant that I know you are pretty good at being a mediator here at iOTW when a little fur starts to fly on a thread. I was complimenting you. I believed you told that story to get this thread on a more light hearted track. I’m ok with that. :-)

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  39. Bad Brad

    January 10th, 2013

    Thanks Kairn, Does no good to eat our own. This threads got me mellon collie over lost souls.

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  40. JPK

    January 10th, 2013

    Wow. Some kinda sweet. I wanna dog.

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  41. Bad Brad

    January 10th, 2013

    JPK, Buy one of these, get a shot gun, go kill some ducks. Only true American breed. That’s no shit.

    http://www.northernflight.com/Cbr-hist.htm
    /

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  42. Kairn

    January 10th, 2013

    Brad,
    Whew. Glad we got that patched up. ;-)

    I know what you mean about our lost doggie souls. I was totally lost in grief for months and months when I lost my last doggie at the age of 17. That wonderful doggie saw me through many major events in my life. Took 5 whole years to get over his loss enough to get another dog. My present doggie makes me laugh every day.

    And yes, I have seen a dog truly smile. Said deceased doggie only grinned from ear to ear whenever we took him to one particular beach. No explanation about why that particular beach. Only he knew.

    Dogs are wonderful creatures. I am certain they are blessings from God. And that means we humans are obligated to do right by them. Anything otherwise has sad consequences when humans disregard the true essence of canines.

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  43. Bad Brad

    January 10th, 2013

    I got one thing to add. That Mutt in the above video is welcome in my duck blind any day. That’s an awesome mutt, and he loves that autistic kid.

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  44. theJadedBarrel

    January 10th, 2013

    This little clip was starting to cause me to cry. Then my heart skipped a beat, a feeling of danger. I for one definitely see your point Kairn.

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