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Albacross

Home - by - December 4, 2012 - 13:37 America/New_York - 59 Comments

DISCLAIMER: Let me begin this post by saying that I was christened, I’m not an enemy of Christians, I support Christians, and my number one enemy is the left.

Now, the hard questions.

- Is it important to keep reminding, and arguing with people, that America was founded by Christians? Isn’t it enough to remind people that they were not secularist, not anti-God and built this nation upon universal moral principles that are practiced by all God-fearing faiths?

- Is the republican party a Christian party from the top down, or is it a political party that happens to attract Christians?

- Should any political argument that has moral elements be answered in this way – “Because that’s what the Bible says”? Can, and should, moral/political arguments be made in a much more inclusive and universal way? For instance, by finding supporting arguments in the writings of all faiths.

I ask these questions because there are arguments being made that the Christian coalition, by the numbers, is not strong enough to carry a party to political victory, and its prominent position in the political tent is hurting rather than helping.

Shouldn’t the priority be to win elections in order to stamp out the political power of the left? The left would be defeated and the assault on Christianity would cease. Why does the right have to identify itself politically as the Christian party, much to its own demise?

Here is a passage from writer Shikha Dalmia-

Hence, when the Republican Party loudly touts its allegiance to “Christian values” and insists that Christianity is inextricably interwoven into the DNA of this country, it doesn’t anger Indians, it nonplusses them. It effectively signals to them that they don’t fully belong in America or their party. And the sight of Haley and Jindal on the Republican convention stage, both of whom rejected their faith and embraced Christianity, doesn’t reassure Indians — it creeps them out!

Dalmia goes on to make the same point about every other non-Christian religion. Isn’t it time for the right to simply be the pro-God party, and not the Christian party? It’s a non-winner politically. It could ultimately result in not only the death of the Christian political party, but the dismantling of institutionalized Christianity in America altogether.

Thoughts?

 

 

» 59 Comments

  1. MaryfromMarin

    December 4th, 2012

    This should be a good thread. Will have to chime in later, as am overwhelmed with tasks and deadlines right at the moment.

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  2. MaryfromMarin

    December 4th, 2012

    Sorry, “interesting” would have been a more precise word than “good”.

    Oh, and p.s., I dislike the thread title. That’ll get things rolling.

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  3. Burrcolator

    December 4th, 2012

    Easily the stupidest article I’ve read in a couple of months. The Reagan coalition isn’t dead. Further people who get caught up in “the GOP should/shouldn’t endorse Christianity” fuax debate are playing right into the stupid progtards hands.

    America was created on the principle of religious freedom. Drop the “founded” crap. It’s a linguistic trap. Look at Norway. “founded” by blood thirsty pagan savages. It was created by a bunch of pacifist Christians. See the difference?

    If people bring up Christianity, point out their un American bigotry and self loathing that they project on people of faith.

    Further, “all men are created equal” nobody gives a fuck about what color you are except stupid lefty progtards. Point out their pedophilia for supporting president Elmo’s agenda of raping our freedoms and molestation of our equality.

    Turn this crap back on the left AND THEN AMPLIFY IT TEN THOUSAND TIMES.

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  4. Jack Daniels

    December 4th, 2012

    First of all, any Christian will honestly admit that not all founding fathers were Christian. They were as you say, not anti-God.

    The covenant however, was made by enough people, that in point of fact, DID recognize God as the Supreme Creator, protector and where the blessing for a nation came from as long as they ACKNOWLEDGED God as such.

    No one truly believes that every single individual that contributed to the birth of this nation was a godly man or woman, nor do any Christian that I have ever spoke with believes categorically that every man woman or child in the entire history of this nation were Christians.

    That said, The ESSENCE of this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, ethics and beliefs; even those of the founding fathers that were not, by definition Christians.

    Remember, the term Christian is a broad definition in and of itself. It can and does include Catholics, Protestants in which there are so many denominations; including Charismatic Jews, and so Pseudo Christian beliefs, like Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons.

    The problem I see is that most Christians today are weak, and do not understand scriptures or history for that matter to a point that they cannot defend their faith, let alone the correlation between the creation of this great nation and Christianity.

    Add to the fact that most so-called Christians today are Christians by name only or part of a family identification.

    At the end of the day, This nation WAS founded on Christian principles and the founding fathers understood this and thus made a covenant with God for the blessing of this nation. To abandon it is to do so at one’s own peril, which we see being played out in spades today.

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  5. Diann

    December 4th, 2012

    Okay, Fur. I’m a Christian. I actually hold a degree in Biblical Studies (lucrative, I know). Here are my answers to your questions:
    1. Conservatism attracts Christians because Conservatism advocates self-sufficiency, a morally-centered life.
    2. The people who founded this nation were God-fearing people. Our emergence as a nation happened in tandem with a revivalist Christian movement within the country. It is what it is.
    3. I do not want a Christian Government. I render to Caesar what is Caesar’s so to speak. Also, I firmly believe that if there were no God, there will still be right and wrong — there would still be a moral code. I know many Christians do not believe that. But I do.

    Anyway. The end.

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  6. Navigator

    December 4th, 2012

    If all Christians voted for Romney, he would have won. The faith knows no party. Prominent position, possibly, but we shouldn’t equivocate on our values.

    Islam worships an evil God. In Allah we trust? I don’t think so.

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  7. Menderman

    December 4th, 2012

    Your graphic does a good job showing why I detest the GOP elitests. They see Christianity as ball and chain to their success. I want a party that openly supports Christianity as well as all peaceful religions.

    Do you see Christians as a detriment to the GOP?

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  8. Jerry Manderin

    December 4th, 2012

    The country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Our Founding Fathers obviously never decreed for U.S. citizens to be born-again.

    You don’t have to use Christianity as a selling point to convert someone to conservatism. “Economic freedom is a founding principle of The Right and are you going to hell?”

    All you have to do is refer God as He is recorded in the Constitution in the party platform.

    The mere fact that a Christian segment of the Republican Party refused to vote for Mitt Romney just because he is a Mormon is bigotry and appalling. Is their faith that weak that Mitt would have had them all accepting the tenents of Joseph Smith?

    Besides, Christ came to deal with us spiritually, not politically.

    Now what about a Muslim Ronald Reagan? Sorry. Getting off track.

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  9. CrustyB

    December 4th, 2012

    Infidel!

    I’m not quite sure the premise of these questions are quite valid. Do Republicans really go around identifying the GOP as “the Christian party?”

    Are there that many GOP representatives who make “we need this law because the Bible says so” arguments?

    I think a lot of this is perception vs. reality.

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  10. Johnny Freedom

    December 4th, 2012

    My thoughts? I really can’t add to it… you said it all for me.

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  11. Menderman

    December 4th, 2012

    ” Why does the right have to identify itself politically as the Christian party, much to its own demise?”

    This is not a personal attack, but, the comment above seems very telling. Being embarrased by Christianity is infuriating and smacks of ignorance. I would rather lose with the Christians than win with the anti-Christians. I have several Athiest friends that are die-hard consevatives and are not threanted or offended by Christians any more than I am threatened or offended by their beliefs. That is the way it should be.

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  12. BigFurHat

    December 4th, 2012

    The Bible can be a winner at the voting booth?
    That’s the essence of the article.
    When your party’s platform has God as a huge plank, but God is defined as Christian and Biblical, it can be a turnoff, even to many Christians.

    ___Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . . ._____

    It’s sort of strange when your congressman makes a point at stump speeches to establishe one religion
    I checked, there is no asterisk that says “unless, of course, that one religion is Christianity.”

    I’m just asking an important question.
    Are you confidant that this is a winning strategy in America today?

    Personally, I don’t think it is. And that is not an attack on Christianity. I’d rather eradicate leftism and its Godlessness, rather than make Jesus the official mascot of the only party we have that has a hope of defeating the Godless left.

    I know it seems counter-intuitive and illogical, but the question is valid.

    Can Christianity in politics be hurting Christianity?

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  13. Left Coast Dan

    December 4th, 2012

    I agree with BFH, as I almost always do. Menderman too. I think GOP’s biggest problem right now is putting up people like Akin as banner-carriers, and supporting them when they make outrageous statements. Focus needs to be on correcting the systems that enable independent thought and work, and that acknowledge individual responsibility to go along with it.

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  14. Left Coast Dan

    December 4th, 2012

    On a somewhat related topic, Santa Monica nativity scenes will be going up in full this Saturday. They will be on private property, along a major street.
    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Santa-Monica-Christmas-Nativity-Scenes-Return-181950491.html

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  15. BigFurHat

    December 4th, 2012

    I have to disagree, Menderman.

    _ I would rather lose with the Christians than win with the anti-Christians_

    Your statement reveals an attempt to establish Christianity as the religion of your government, which is fine for the Christians.

    Besides, not wanting a Christian government is not anti-Christian.

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  16. Menderman

    December 4th, 2012

    I am not suggesting that a politicians needs to tote a Bible to every speech, but any politicien that is embarrased by Christians will not get my vote…mo matter his positions on issues. I see nothing to be embarrased about. (except the wackos of Westboro, but I don’t view them as valid Christians)

    In looking through the old posts, I came across the “Ballad to Sarah Palin” vid. Read that one again…those are my views of Christians.

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  17. BigFurHat

    December 4th, 2012

    I’m not embarrassed by Christians. I’m embarrassed by Christian politicians that answer complex moral and ethical political questions by saying, “because the Bible says….”

    Are they TRYING to alienate potential voters needlessly?

    The questions can be answered by quoting philosophers, theologians and great thinkers (including themselves) without appealing to what they obviously think is the ultimate appeal to authority – Christ.
    That is exclusive and unnecessary.
    I’m trying to win elections, you guys can Proselytize on your own time.
    And if we win elections Proselytizing won’t be outlawed.
    Capiche?

    I’m not the enemy. I’m the guy you recruit from outside the company that has the balls to tell the board why they are losing market share.

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  18. Menderman

    December 4th, 2012

    I would also rather lose with the Jews than win with the anti-semites.

    it is the “anti” part that gets me.

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  19. Diann

    December 4th, 2012

    To me, Fur, it is a question not of “religion,” but standing up for principles. I am with Phyllis Schlafly that you cannot separate fiscal conservative principles from social conservative principles. Principles are principles. I can no more state that I am a conservative EXCEPT on social matters, than I could state that I am against killing, except really ugly people.

    If we do not make a serious attempt at reclaiming the culture of this country, we will be perpetually screwed.

    Again, I will say that I believe that morality is not exclusively religious. If we do not start standing for SOMETHING we might as well take our toys and go home.

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  20. Menderman

    December 4th, 2012

    I’m stepping out of this one…I see it going nowhere and going there badly. We agree on the issues, and that is what matters.

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  21. michellesbigbeaver

    December 4th, 2012

    I must say that if a group of free thinking
    “Indians” that would rather avoid Repubs over their “Christain” stance and instead align themselves directly with a party that:

    1. Actively denies the existance of any God.
    2. Promotes the most dangerous lifestyle known:
    homosexuality.
    3. Promotes sex with underage boys, girls &
    animals (not just underage animals).
    4. Freely embraces and goes to great extent to
    act as appologists for Islam.
    5. Promotes one of the most failed political
    governance systems in the world: socialism
    5. As well as trying to control every aspect of
    your life from what you: eat, drink, drive,
    the kind of power you use, what you see on the
    internet, what you can teach your children,
    whether or not you can own a guns and etc…

    Well I can actually do very well without them. Christians are typically very accepting, so the Indians need to decide what they want to compromise on….

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  22. GruntOfMonteCristo

    December 4th, 2012

    Awesome question. I like what Jack Daniels and Menderman and Navigator and CrustyB had to say. Foundations DO matter, and much of the rest may be a problem of perception versus reality. Maybe it’s like Whittle said about how we just failed to win over the culture. But maybe the “albacross” isn’t the GOP’s problem, y’know?

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  23. Jack Daniels

    December 4th, 2012

    BFH,

    I guess the best way I can make the comparison is by using the Pharisees as an analogy.

    They believed that they were the spokesperson of God, that they alone represented God.

    Jesus often rebuked them called them a brood of vipers because of their hypocrisy, going so far as to stating that;

    “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. Mat 23:15

    All this because it is one thing to confess Jesus as Savior and Lord, but what we see playing out in todays political arena is a Pharisaical form of Christianity.

    Humility and faith will render blessing, a Jesus mascot won’t. the Bible makes it quite clear that if you humble yourself, then God return to you.

    This has to be applied individually as well as collectively, then the nation will be blessed in spite of those who do not believe, but precisely because of the righteous. The book of Deuteronomy states the case very clear as well as the entire Scripture. Simply stating God is God will not bless a nation, humility, repentance and action must follow.

    As the church (the body of believers) dies, so the nation follows.

    The GOP does not represent Christians. I can say this simply because of their actions. believers need to stop being apathetic, trusting in their ‘Pharisee’ leaders and pray for this nation, repent, then above all, walk in faith as lead by God. Then God will heal, restore and bless the nation again.

    “If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels”. Luke 9:26

    The rejection of the truth is to accept a lie…and the destruction that comes with it.

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  24. BigFurHat

    December 4th, 2012

    No one is asking the right to remove morality, ethics or God from their platform or the political arena.
    They are asking the right to stop trying to establish God to mean Christianity.

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  25. Kairn

    December 4th, 2012

    The Ten Commandments are the most basic and necessary tools in anyone’s toolbox. They offer a solid foundation with which humanity can live well upon, from individuals all the way up to cumbersome bureaucracies. Breaking these commandments, and it doesn’t matter what faith or not an individual ascribes to, creates all kinds of sorrows and troubles in the world. As we certainly can clearly see today.

    I guess what I am saying is, we all need to emphasize going back to the basics in order to effectively move forward. In doing so, Christ is removed from the debate.

    Pssst…don’t tell this to the atheists or believers in other faiths, but I believe it is Christ Himself who is pointing us all back to the mandates of the Ten Commandments. Read them again and reflect deeply. There lies the answers and solutions to all our problems.

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  26. Ticklebee

    December 4th, 2012

    I want to see an ethical government run by ethical people. Christianity is good but not necessary. Isn’t a Judeo-Christian ethic really the same as the moral basis of most religions? That’s because of the Natural Law that all of God’s people know, except for Muslims for some reason.

    I wonder if ostentatious Christianity convinces anyone. “Bible Thumper” is not synonymous with Christian, and that image turns most people off, including me. And I’m an enthusiastic believing Catholic who wishes I could convert the whole world by jumping up and down and proclaiming how wonderful Jesus is and what he will do for you if you just ask. Doesn’t work.

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  27. Diann

    December 4th, 2012

    Fur, the God of our founders, the God, Providence, referred to in our founding documents is the Judeo Christian God. How do we separate it? What other God are they talking about? Morgan Freeman?

    It is part of our American culture. To deny that is to deny who we are as a people.

    God doesn’t mean Christianity. Christ risen from the dead means Christianity. I’m not advocating a Christian Government. Good heavens, they can’t even run a postal service!

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  28. General P. Malaise

    December 4th, 2012

    I agree that the message is flawed. but romney lost to criminal activities (CHEATING AND VOTE FRAUD).

    so calling oneself christian or not had little to do with the outcome of the election.

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  29. Jack Daniels

    December 4th, 2012

    “No one is asking the right to remove morality, ethics or God from their platform or the political arena.
    They are asking the right to stop trying to establish God to mean Christianity.” BFH

    All moral, and civil laws are summed up in the 10 Commandments- ergo, Judeo-Christian laws.Laws by the way, that has been adopted by virtually every nation in the world in terms of defining their civil laws.

    As for the removal of God, define God? the Buddhist God? that claims that no one can truly know God? Islamic God that never mentions the word love in their entire holy writings- the koran? The satanic God, which states do as you will?

    In this nation God has always been defines by the Judeo-Christian faith. Thus God by the very definition, IS the Judeo-Christian God

    Remove God from morality and ethics, then you do not have by definition an ethical or moral society. This has been proven well enough throughout history.

    Christianity has changed the world! brought light in dark nations and has changed the face of the civilized world. No other God has done this.

    Are we perfect? far from it, we are flawed, nonetheless, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has produced blessings unparalleled in history, both for Israel, Britain and the US as well as every other nation that has embraced Christianity.

    The Christian God, no other God.

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  30. BigFurHat

    December 4th, 2012

    General,
    THAT, my friend, is probably the most lucid response that is going to appear on this thread.

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  31. m00pa

    December 4th, 2012

    I figure when a conservative says the country was founded on Christian beliefs, the leftard imagination invisions the Westboro babtists with the god hates fags signs. I’m afraid there is no seperating that in thier minds. Few leftards are religious, not true athiest, just not religious. Leftards don’t feel there are things bigger, more important or higher than themselves. That is one reason the left doesn’t serve in defense of thier country, or truely give two shakes about others.

    There are also many conservatives that aren’t very religious, but they don’t feel a threat of having something rammed somewhere when God is mentioned. With the lack of education in overall values of any type children have expirienced over the last 30 yearsit’s no wonder where we are today. Growing up now-a-dyas in America is less religious and value minded than ever before.

    I don’t feel the GOP should drop God, but maybe adjust thier speech as suggested by Fur. I’m afraid it may already be too late to reclaim what was lost. I feel we may need to take a new course of action to win over new members. The left has implanted thier adgenda into just about every area of society today.

    We need to renew the offense instead of playing prevent defense, and we need to action it quickly before it’s too late. Conservatives do not have as large a base as they think they have, what remains is solid, but it hasn’t grown larger. The last election showed me that.

    If you are raising the next generation or have a hand in it: It is time to unpulg the damned TV, home school or cyber charter your children. Teach them your values and why you believe what you believe, teach them to live each day with courage, show them right from wrong, take pride in who you are, be tough but fair, do what has to be done, draw the line and teach them where it is, be consistant, teach them not everything is for sale, and be the example of riding for the brand you protect.

    just my two cents …

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  32. BigFurHat

    December 4th, 2012

    Menderman left fearing that this could get out of hand.
    It won’t, because I am not anti-Christian.

    I just bring this topic up because the bottom line is we need to WIN ELECTIONS.
    And any theory as to why we lost is open to discussion.
    Any idea about how we can win moving forward is on the table.
    If saying that the Bible, not God, being removed from the vernacular going forward is heresy, than this has been a self-answering question.

    I would be content leaving it very clear that our rights are not derived from man but our creator, EVEN IF THAT IS ALLAH (God forbid, lol) because that is how the left rolls, and I want to KILL THE LEFT (God forgive me, lol.)

    At the very least, you have to admit I don’t fear the third rail, discussion-wise.

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  33. BWSEATTLE

    December 4th, 2012

    @ BFH,

    AHA! You get it, don’t you? Yes, I think you are seeing the light on this. I think so-called “Christian” politicians who try to force their version of Christianity on their constituents (and non supporters) are doing more harm than good. I consider myself a Christian, and I will not let a politician dictate “Christianity” to me, simply because I don’t trust politicians. When I hear these guys and gals spouting their holier than thou crap, then 3 days later get busted for doing something seriously bad and unethical and immoral, it gives a huge black eye to all Christians in the eyes especially of the non believers. At least liberal politicians tell us to our faces that they are here to trample our rights and rip us off and kill more unborn babies. GOP pushing GOD/Jesus on everyone is just not believeable or credible. Sorry for the rambling ;)

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  34. Jack Daniels

    December 4th, 2012

    @BFH,

    LOL, I can’t count how many times over the years you had to state that you are not anti-Christian. Anyone who has been around iOTW for awhile knows you are not anti-God or anti-Christian, you simply ask questions. Questions that in my opinion, are legitimate and I have never found any one of your questions offensive.

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  35. Claudia

    December 4th, 2012

    We laugh at, make fun of, and deride those on the left who are afraid of an island tipping over, say he has campaigned in 57 states, we need to pass a law before we know what is in it and made many other stupid, moronic and vapid statements and make generalizations that THIS is the Democrat Party. Yet we truly know that is not the case. I would even bet that most Democrats that are not ignorant.

    Hummm, I think that I just convinced myself that my example is invalid. Most Democrats ARE ignorant. Dang, and it was a good idea, too.

    I was going to say that the Republicans that spout “Because it’s in the Bible” and claim that the GOP is Christian are so few that we shouldn’t bother defending them. Like those comments before, it’s a perception tactic that the left has honed to perfection – they want us to concentrate on this issue in order to obfuscate what our true differences are and they are trying to control our political conversation. They maneuver the conversation so that their opponents feel they have to defend Christianity instead of whatever political ideology they are discussing (abortion, slavery, economic conservatism, etc.).

    How many, really, are there of the GOP that make these statements about the Republican party being Christian and answer “because the Bible says so”? What was the content of the conversation and how serious and platform-specific were these statements? And how many, really, are swayed by that to not vote R? I really don’t know because I have never heard this argued before.

    Anyway, I lost the bet. I forgot for a minute that liberalism is a mental disorder.

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  36. Dave

    December 4th, 2012

    Ayn Rand noted that during the Cold War, the Christian right (of which I am one) based their defense of America and it’s capitalistic system on faith in God. In doing so, the conceded the realm of reason to the communists.
    Capitalism and the traditional American culture of individualism must be defended through reason and not faith.

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  37. ChiefIllinicake

    December 4th, 2012

    This inquiry really stems back to the 80′s, with the Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell/Focus on the Family/Dobson/Reed, etc. cabal. We got in bed BIG TIME with the evangelicals then, and the side- effects linger to this day.

    I’m not being critical; it was a decision, and decisions have repercussions.

    At some level, though, it does beg the question…why do political parties exist? Why belong to one? And what are they fairly expected to achieve?

    For me, being a Republican is about fealty to the Constitution, promoting vigorous capitalism and a way up for anyone who chooses to plug in, defense of our individual rights and safeguarding OUR liberties, sound fiscal responsibility, and of course, national defense. That’s it.

    Now, if the party’s overwhelming concern is becoming saving souls, or applying a litmus test to make sure only the “right people” get in, then perhaps our current lack of success is explainable.

    We’re not selling the American Story anymore…more of a country club version is what hear of late. Isn’t part of the term “party” wanting to be part of it?

    Where’s our appeal to the strivers? The dreamers? The up and comers? The down and outers?

    It seems to me that our core beliefs are solid, but we assume that everybody gets us, and face it…we’re political freaks, and it’s painfully clear now that they aren’t getting us.

    Our public face is skewed. Too overtly religious. Too doctrinaire. To me, it’s about striking a balance and not being so full of your own bullshit that you put others off. There’s a separation of church and state for a reason…who cares if our coalition includes the less traditional if we’re actually succeeding in moving forward the things I listed earlier? I don’t.

    Look at Reagan…everybody knew where he stood, rock solid on all of the fronts, clearly a man of God’s…but he pulled in all of those democrats too, didn’t he?

    Get ‘em in first, then develop them further. But right now, there’s no hook.

    I mean, who’s the leader of this party now? John Boehner? McConnell?

    We’re telling the young and the gals and the Hispanics: you’re a lazy slug, we don’t approve of your godless lifestyle, keep your legs crossed, and BTW…your fearless leaders (if you choose to sign up) will be John Boehner and Mr. Turtle?

    That’s a tough sell.

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  38. BigFurHat

    December 4th, 2012

    Jack,
    I know. I get self-conscious with all the preemptive apologizing, but I want to be provocative, but not assholish.

    It’s a fine line, and I don’t always balance it well.
    But it’s better than boring!

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  39. Stranded in Sonoma

    December 4th, 2012

    The framers of the constitution were God-fearing men. When the time came for the discussion on Article 1, Section 8, Clause 2 (To borrow money on the credit of the United States), there was a motion to remove the phrase and emit bills so that the gov’t could not print paper money. The motion passed because one of the delegates likened paper money to the beast in Revelations.

    But Article 6, Clause 3, says, in part, …but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. They were religious, they feared God, but they knew that you could not allow religion to rule the country. They were not interested in a theocracy or democracy or any other type of -ocracy. They let religion guide them; they didn’t want one specific religion to rule them.

    And I don’t believe that a Hindu or a Buddhist or whatever is scared by Christianity. Only libtards are afraid of Christianity. Intelligent people are afraid of the hell that is islam. And that group includes the Hindus and Buddhists and others that have had any dealings with muzloids.

    The GOP is trying to create “electable” candidates. In other words, socialist-lite. “Reglion? We’re not really that religious. It’s kind of a quasi, pseudo, almost belief in religion. Like the democrats.” Bill Whittle said it best about how the GOP doesn’t believe in it’s own philosophy. It’s okay to have a religious candidate or lots of them across the political landscape. What we need is someone that isn’t afraid to say that and enunciate it clearly and concisely.

    Don’t run away from it. Use it as a strength.

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  40. Jerry Manderin

    December 4th, 2012

    WWJD?

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  41. Diann

    December 4th, 2012

    Oh, Fur, you big preemptive apologizer, you!

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  42. Alpha Maser

    December 4th, 2012

    Don’t fall into the “radical ecumenism” trap. Religion and the Church have been just infected with liberalism / leftism as our political system. Many so-called Christian Churches no longer even teach the Holy Bible — they have become blatantly Marxist. Tread lightly here Fur.

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  43. Claudia

    December 4th, 2012

    @Alpha Maser, you are spot on!

    Because the Bible says so (sorry Fur, just had to do that).

    The New Testament is full of warnings about people preaching a “new” gospel. Study the scriptures to be able to spot the phonies (I paraphrased). Even before Christ was crucified there were people who tried to cash in on the excitement he spread.

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  44. Plain Jane

    December 4th, 2012

    Am pressed for time, so I’m sorry to say I haven’t read all comments to this post. (Will read later.

    The left (and some of the rhinos) are using Christianity to try to kill the conservative wing of the Republican party, and are using the Conservatives to try to kill Christianity.

    I am a _practicing_ RC. But, I cringe whenever a good conservative candidate brings up the words Christian-Judeo values issue. It holds no water anymore with the MTV culture that has taken hold of our “virtue.”

    Appeals to voters needs to be to the innate desire for freedom in all mankind.

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  45. not the droid you seek

    December 4th, 2012

    This isn’t a comment on your column, but on the person quoted in The Blaze article. Here’s a heading from Reason Magazine’s website:

    Reasons Why Conservatives Should Root For a Romney Defeat: Six and Counting

    Shikha Dalmia|Sep. 19, 2012 10:40 am

    Dalmia was, apparently, serious about this. Let’s never quote this person again, about anything. Sounds more like an activist than anything.

    Also, here’s an opening salvo from before the election, different column:

    Why Republicans Can’t Harness Indian-American Patel Power

    Shikha Dalmia|Oct. 31, 2012 1:20 pm

    Mitt Romney might not have baptized any dead people lately, but 10,000 miles away in India a Hindu priest recently concluded a yajna on his behalf.

    Yeah, that’s helpful.

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  46. SrWoodchuck

    December 4th, 2012

    Two points that have been touched on in this thread:
    First, the Founders were not all Christian, but I think that their varied belief’s in a God, sustained them personally as they fought for freedom. They had bigger things to worry about, as they faced the British They wouldn’t have been hung or shot for being Christian. Belief in country [& countrymen] was separate, and not combined with religion.
    Second, the progressive, communist or liberal clic, wants the worship of man, over God. It can’t exist without that basic tenet….and it isn’t new. The Greco-Roman myth religion, was the antithesis of the Judeo-Christian. History showing man over God. That we can be productive & responsible, with Christian charity for others is liberating……something that doesn’t fit with their “EBT-cards-for-immigrants-buy-your-vote” scenario. IMO

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  47. vizslak72

    December 4th, 2012

    Limit it to the Ten Commandments and you may have a winner. All of the other stuff would be tacitly implied, but not in lightning rod fashion.

    JS

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  48. Mr. Happy

    December 4th, 2012

    Hey, the Dems are doing it, so why shouldn’t we do it too!
    I have heard more idiotic crap from “the pragmatists”, so why is the no talk of kicking those assholes to the curb?

    Dem-lite is what loses elections, not being Christian friendly.

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  49. Mr. Happy

    December 4th, 2012

    Just who are we pandering to here?
    The atheists?
    Jews?
    Hindus?
    Animists?
    Gia worshipers?

    Guess what, they all hate us anyway. I really wish this instance of wanting to sit at the cool table would just go the fuck away.

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  50. J Galt

    December 4th, 2012

    I’ll simplify this for ya, BFH. There’s “Christians”, and then there’s Christians.

    The two groups sound like the same thing, but they ain’t.

    Christians do not belong to any church that has a tax payer ID number.

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  51. Kairn

    December 4th, 2012

    @J Galt,
    AMEN!!!!!

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  52. MaryfromMarin

    December 4th, 2012

    “Interesting” was the right word, for sure.

    Now that iOTW has a shorter front page, this is already fading away-y-y-y. Perhaps that has saved me from another theological mini-brawl.

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  53. BigFurHat

    December 4th, 2012

    Mary,
    You have been saved!

    To distill it-
    I am advocating for the right to certainly evoke the creator, if not only to educate the idiots that their rights are not granted by mortal men, but also to cull from a large pool of theology and philosophy to bolster their theories about civics, culture, society.
    When you start your argument with the Bible and end it with the Bible you’re getting uncomfortably close to the establishment of a state religion.

    Why is everyone beating around the bush? Just say it – you think it’s outrageous to suggest that the right adopt a POLITICAL platform of morality and ethics based upon the commonly shared rock solid, foundational beliefs that appear in all major faiths.
    It’s heresy to suggest that Christ not be the official mascot of the POLITICAL party of the right.

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  54. Marry John Grab Ankles

    December 4th, 2012

    Establishment of State religions was a State right for a long time during the founding period. I find nothing wrong with establishing county, parish or even State religions if the votes are there.

    That is what the constitution protects Mr. Fur, don’t get all turned up side down here. The Fed should have no rights when it come to religion period — for that in essence is a “national religion”! The people, that is what we were founded on, God and Guns! Get used to it, that is the essence of conservatism — individual rights conferred to the State in a limited fashion and to the Fed in the most limited fashion — see the 10th amendment.

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  55. MaryfromMarin

    December 4th, 2012

    No, BFH, I’m not beating around that bush. It’s too surface.

    [I'll allow myself one sidetrack point: "morality and ethics based upon the commonly shared rock solid, foundational beliefs that appear in all major faiths." What are the rock solid, foundational beliefs we share with Islam? Enough to support that POLITICAL platform you are suggesting? Not a chance, and you know it.]

    Here is part of my bottoml line: Faith is far more important than politics, and far more encompassing. And that “large pool of theology and philosophy” you reference? I will not walk into that trap. And I don’t mean that it’s a discursive trap YOU are setting. It’s just a trap, period. A trap that’s been set for millenia, and has undoubtedly snared many.

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  56. Frosteetoes

    December 4th, 2012

    Wasn’t ‘Divine Providence’ the key phrase invoked instead of mentioning Christianity or God?

    Anyway, this RT newscaster points out some interesting changes of the Republican party and reminds us of the Eisenhower republicans were what the GOP was suppose to be about.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0giVL4j8mQ&feature=g-hist

    .

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  57. Alpha Maser

    December 4th, 2012

    Establishment of State religions was a State right during the founding period. I find nothing wrong with establishing County/Parish or even State religions if the votes are there. The constitution is supposed to *protect* the free expression of religious beliefs.

    This Country was founded on Judea-Christianity and LOADED guns!

    God an guns are in many ways the essence of conservatism — individual rights conferred to the State in a limited fashion and to the Fed in the most limited fashion — see the 10th amendment.

    Bless you all IOTWrs!

    Alpha

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  58. roachmanfwa

    December 4th, 2012

    I guess my question is: WHO is bringing up the candidates’ religion? I can’t think of any candidates I take seriously that wear their Christianity on their sleeve. Are we accepting the left’s premises? Sometimes I think so. In the cases of Akin & Donnelley (I’m in Indiana), the problem was a couple of dudes that had not been properly prepared for the attempts (successful) to get them to say something stupid. These guys needed to not answer the question and turn the issue back on the questioner – “what does this have to do with the economy/deficit/etc.?” I think moments like those come about when people get off topic, something the left almost NEVER does. We need moral people running for office; they HAVE to be better prepared for surviving the crapstorm they are stepping into.

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  59. Michael W Perkins

    December 9th, 2012

    I’m not really all that concerned with the GOP I am registering as an Independent for 2014. We need to Leave the 2 party system & form a Middle Class working peoples party that is solidly Conservative/libertarian, somewhere in between the 2. We have so many RINO SOB’s that we cant trust that it’s not worth it anymore, we need a new Bull Moose Party, With BIG Horns to gore the shit out of the establishment hacks that are looking to do nothing but line their pockets & “Play Ball” GOP today might as well mean Got My Paycheck.

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