iOwnTheWorld.com

Well, so much for Math as our weapon of choice to win the election.

+4

I colud no more tell Palin’s daughters that they cant have an abortion than I could tell Obama’s
daughters that they have to pick cotton.

+5

Well said BFH. I agree with you and some others here. I think it is a local/state issue. It is such a hot topic and it is best hashed out on a local level with our neighbors and fellow residents.
We must defeat Obamama and the other Democrats.

+9

I just sent this to my Tea Party folk and some local Republican mucky mucks. It’s sad, but I think we’ve just lost. …Lady in Red

“I’m just back from a vacation with two very smart (Stanford physicist and retired head of EDS-Europe) girlfriends from hs.

“Taking women back to the dark ages of back alley abortions is the most frightening issue for them.

“It really pisses me off that conservatives and libertarians had to walk this idiot “belief” line. We have Constitutional issues and debt issues, never mind socialism. Instead, all candidates
are forced by the fundamentalist rightwing of the party to swear their commitment to imposing American taliban, forced birthing/”pro-life” “beliefs” on all of Americans. I heard it at our Tea Party meetings, questioning candidates.

“Conservative and libertarian candidates are *not* allowed by the fundamentalists to stay out of this issue. Swear to your commitment to force all women to birth at all times, or….. we ain’t gonna vote for you! So, guys, looks like you’re winning:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/dem-convention-becomes-anti-akin-affair/article/2505601#.UDUMYsFlT-l

“It’s sad. Very very sad. And this anti-abortion, nose-in-MY-business is going to cost the Republicans the election.”

The head-in-the-sand American taliban never understood how important this issue is. And, after the election is lost, man, how I am going to fight you religious zealots, idiots! If the country is going to go down as Obama’s socialist America, I’m standing at the ramparts shooting at the fanatics who made it happen. ….Lady in Red

+2

this and gay marriage the least relevant topics of all and Republicans take the bait time and time again. i just don’t get it.

now we should wait to see who the next sandra fluke will be.

+8

Given the fact that AIDS, condoms, spermicide, and IUD commercials are constantly run on television programs targeting tweens and up, and the availability of free or low cost contraception, there’s absolutely no reason for an unwanted pregnancy – except “I couldn’t control myself”, and rape. And as I’ve said elsewhere here today, if the claim of rape is to be a viable reason for abortion it must be accompanied by police verification i.e. charges filed and lab report.

So it boils down to a lack of personal responsibility or a crime.

Removing government funding from Planned Parenthood and allowing citizens at a state level to decide whether or not they support abortion will send a direct and nonnegotiable message on responsibility. As for the crime of rape, a merciful system must exist to give victims choices – and there are several – that allow protection and dignity at a difficult time.

Conservatives have got to admit that the abortion genie’s out of the bottle and there’s no putting it back in. Making abortions rare and safe should be our goal – at least for now – not fighting an unwinnable battle with people we’d like to convince to join our side.

Gonna take some heat for this I bet. Ah well.

+9

@Lady: How many Akins’ are there in the Senate, the House, and on the judiciary? It seems it’s a little (sarcasm) more tilted to the Democrat Sandra Flukes, as in abortion all the time and at all cost to the taxpayers.

The majority of Republicans (say they) are pro-life but with exceptions. So much for the ‘fundamentalist rightwing of the party’ holding sway.

Some have to check under their beds every night for the bogeyman. And some use this ‘exceptions’ argument to further their pro-abortion all the time agenda. Wouldn’t be you, would it?

+8

Dearest BS:

Yep. I believe it’s abortion’s a personal decision. A medical decision. Like whether you should have your tonsils out. Or not.

It’s not a “states’ right” issue, either. It’s *personal* like whether you choose to put your dog to sleep, when he’s too old to stand any more. Or, wait for “God” to take his life.

Beliefs are complicated and, obviously, powerful.

But, as well as the tipping point the country faces economically, we face a (stupid) tipping point vis a vis forced birthing. Blessedly, the other side (the one we both hate) will win (as they should on this issue). The problem, the thing that pisses me off, is that Obama will win because of this. It doesn’t matter, any longer, the mess he’s made for four years. The pious, sanctimonious forced birthers just cost Romney the election. It will be down hill from here.

Oh, oh, oh, how I wish you religious, Bible thumping zealots had picked something easy to “believe” in, like no one ever should eat a snail because they are sacred. Romney probably could have won pushing that agenda.

But, you folk have cost us the Constitution. And more piles on the debt. Sleep well. ..Lady in Red

+3

X: not really.

+3

Using Hiroshima and Nagasaki as an argument for abortion is the most disgusting thing I’ve ever read anybody ever use, and I’ve been arguing the pro-abortion stance for 30 years. That’s lower than I’ve ever seen any liberal go and I’ve seen them go pretty goddamned low.

Fuck you, Big Fur Hat. You are no conservative. But I give you props. I used to do this kind of thing for sport because I LOVED watching conservatives attack each other. But even I never sunk this low.

+9

If I’m ok with killing civilians during war – which I am, since they fund the entire enterprise and create all the war materiel – why wouldn’t I be ok with killing the unborn children of those same civilians?

I don’t mean intentionally targeting civilians as in terrorism – but I’m not going to lose any sleep over collateral damage of civilians who would kill me and mine if they had a chance.

+6

The more discussion of this entire issue [abortion/life] the better.

After the election would be swell. That way we won’t lose it, or hand it to them as the case might be.

+4

Nothing will ever slake the liberal’s thirst for baby blood.

Women’s right to murder.
What sick twisted souls.

This Akin character only enraged their bloodlust.

Seems like something a rhino would pull for that libcong hag he was supposed to beat in the erection.

+9

@LIR

I will grant you one concession, and that is, that it is Akin who has given the dems a HUGE wedge issue to exploit. Akin is a self-serving idiot.

If I’m not mistaken the no abortion for any reason plank has always been part of the Republican platform. And frankly, it hasn’t been elevated to this level of an issue because we haven’t been in such a high high stakes game of poker in the past as we are today. So this is not a new phenomenon. This is a controversy of the left’s doing. The phrase used by the left to get Obumphuk re-elected is:

“By Any Means Necessary!”

The enemy is looking for ANYTHING, and the idiot Akin gave it to them. Now is not the time to have the all or nothing, my way or the highway argument over abortion.

So in some strange way you and I are in agreement at this time. Call it a temporary truce. The real war is against the communist Oblowme regime.

+5

Right when I think I know which side some are defending in their comment, they end by throwing me a curve.

What’s a rhino libcong hag beating the erection?

+2

Crap on a stick I wish they would get off this plank in the platform. We’ve got bigger fish to fry and you can bet this is gonna piss off a lot of ladies and make em stay home. It’s just not the issue to fall on your sword on. Leave it up to the states.

+7

Yeh, Bad Brad….. I’ve been trying to get the right wing side of the church to set the forced birthing issue aside ’til after the election for years.

Nah, it’s their stealth issue. Fuck the Constitution and the debt! Just widen the corridors in state abortion clinics or force women to have an ultrasound before a (legal) abortion. Hehe. We’ll impose our beliefs. Hehe.

Folk, we just crossed the Rubicon. It’s too late, Fur. The damn Republican platform won’t change. Akin won’t step down. And the smug forced birthers just lost the nation the whole enchilada.

….Lady in Red
PS: I asked you, Fur. I begged you to tackle this issue. (And, I rather admire your subtle sideways method of addressing the issue.) But, it’s too late. Akin and IOTW’s Frosty (and the rest of the sanctimonious fundamentalist crowd) have their “principles,” (which, of course, have nothing to do with principles in Founding Father sense, only in a witchcraft sense, but…). You and I will pay for their “principles.”

….sigh….. ….Lady in Red
PS: I adore Luv Bacon’s line: “Nothing will ever slake the liberal’s thirst for baby blood.” And, then, I wonder: How does a person with this mindset about his neighbors function, on a daily basis, in America? I suppose not having to find out will be the upside of an Obama win.

+1

hey lookee…the fucking lib/leftists are defining the “debate” AGAIN… in SIX years of legislation is there REALLY going to be THAT MUCH covering the topic of abortion??!?!!? SRSLY??
RU FCKING kidding me????
you think maybe mccasshole set the agenda by pumping $1,500,000 into the akin campaign -just to make sure- that the MOST conservative won… then had her minion/tards in the media – like clockwork – SABOTAGE the/any/every akin interview?!?!?
WTF it’s FUCIKNG LEFTY political BS as usual

EVERY ANSWER out of EVERY repubs mouth should start with “Despite your continual efforts in trying to say that our supporters are complete idiots, the facts remain that….

+5

I wish you were right, Mr. B.S., but like the ole song says, “It’s too late, baby, now it’s too late…. though we really tried to make it…”

I wish my crystal ball were not so clear, but the Dem convention is going to be a pro-individual choice (which is the libertarian position) and the Repub convention will be six feet under in forced birthing, self-defecated shit. Too much to shovel, too late. You shit the mess and now you will swim in it. Can’t back track until “after the election.” It’s been your centerpiece stealth issue for eternity. ….Lady in Red

0

Mt dearest of all red ladies,

I simply expect my neighbor to have a basic grasp for humanity.
I could give a hootie-hoot what they do on a day to day basis. (although I am sick and tired of pulling the weight of the welfare state. I will not bankroll their babykilling.

Liberalism gives a free pass for moral destitution.

Love,
Bacon

+8

Abortion is a horrible solution and not to be advocated for, however it still needs to be an option for some women, period. I am a reluctantly pro choice Republican, I have taught my children it is an immoral choice, but it still must be a choice!!! Who protects the unwanted child born to a mother that did not want it? This has got to stop being the end all be all political issue for the Republican Party!! There are many many fiscally Conservative socially more liberal Republicans out here that don’t regard abortion as the ultimate line in the sand.

+7

I Luv Bacon:

(although I am sick and tired of pulling the weight of the welfare state. I will not bankroll their babykilling.

Then you better hope to god our candidates can distance themselves as far as they can from this subject until after the election. The asshole get in for another 4 years look the F out.

Fact, they will lose votes if they address this topic honestly.

The best thing the can do is push it off onto the states and move on to the next.

+4

Mr. Bacon…. *I* have a much greater grasp for “humanity” than most here, certainly all of the “forced birthers.”

I’ve never heard you write before, “I could give a hootie-hoot what they do on a day to day basis. (although I am sick and tired of pulling the weight of the welfare state. I will not bankroll their babykilling….”

I would negotiate you not “bankroll”ing “babykilling” in exchange for the right of some women — who have humanity, and lots of it — to have a safe legal abortion, without harassment, abuse, fear that their doctor will be shot, etc.

You seem to be moving in your position, Luv Bacon. I only wish it were sooner. …Lady in Red

PS: And, certainly, I have never understood resentment by the forced birthers about “pulling the weight of the welfare state.” Hell, it’s you who are trying to force all those unthinking, unable-to-think-past-tomorrow welfare moms to birth, birth, birth! (But, I agree with you about not wanting to support endless welfare babies — who will NOT all grow up to be Beethovans, btw!)

+2

Jaynie,
Try and keep up with the bouncing ball.
The Hiroshima argument was used to challenge the absolutist view that “no innocent life ever should be taken, PARTICULARLY when it is a fetus.”
Well, I asked if they were for capital punishment. They were. Innocent lives are taken all the time. There have been innocent people put to death. If that is acceptable to absolutists it is a steaming pile of rationalization that is about to arrive at the station.
Absolutists should be anti-war because unborn innocents are killed all the time.
I was told there is an acceptable reason for this – again justification and rationalization – that it would save more lives in the long run.
Why can’t abortion absolutists wrap their heads around the fact that WE ARE AT WAR here in America?
Why can’t they rationalize and justify a dispensation on this issue in order to save more babies in the long run?
If the left wins there will be many many many more abortions – and you’ll be paying for them.

I know this is wayyyy too deep for you. You know how I know?

“Fuck you, BigFurHat.”

And then you say I’m not a conservative. LOL
If you have to be a Fundamnentalist Christian to be a conservative I guess I’m not.
And that there is the fucking problem in a fucking nutshell.

Goodbye, America.
Now we don’t have freedom OR protected babies.
And I’m looking squarely at YOU, FC.

+7

Whew! I’d find it scary to live next door to Mr. Jack Daniels, too.

At least he has clarified this for me: “There IS a difference between killing the ‘unborn’ of our enemies and those of our own.” Well, well, well.
I was wondering about that.

I wonder what the Bible says about how short I must cut my grass? ….Lady in Red

0

Bad Brad, I’m with you. This issue is being used as a diversion from the economy and jobs. If the GOP doesn’t have the sense to see that and take control of the conversation, we’re doomed.

+5

X says,
If I’m ok with killing civilians during war – which I am, since they fund the entire enterprise and create all the war materiel – why wouldn’t I be ok with killing the unborn children of those same civilians?

I don’t mean intentionally targeting civilians as in terrorism – but I’m not going to lose any sleep over collateral damage of civilians who would kill me and mine if they had a chance.>>>

I’ll tell you why. Because the Christian argument was that this unborn might go on to invent some magically world saving thing, and the baby has nothing to do with a rapist’s crime, so why punish them?
But apparently the innocent unborn child of an enemy combatant, an unborn that has absolutely NOTHING to do with that war, isn’t afforded any similar rationalization.
The NO ABORTION EVER FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER, does not hold its weight in pisswater intellectually, that is why the absolutists counter with FUCK YOU, BIGFURHAT. It’s hard to do hard thinking. Anger and fuck you is only a few steps from “I’d like to kill you.” And trust me, I’m as innocent and pure as the driven snow.

+5

Damn! But I soooooooooooo wish that all you forced birthers would have noticed the importance of tabling this issue before the election! ….not clawing at your state’s abortion laws in order to “win” for your witchcraft beliefs.

Duh? It’s your centerpiece issue. Ain’t the Constitution, the debt, Israel, states’ rights. Nah. It’s *always* been forcing all women to birth all the time.

Now, the Dems have called you on it. That’s all. This is not a sneak attack, faux issue the Dems have conjured up. This is *your* centerpiece, baby! Live with it. (At least SuperToe is willing to do so, regardless the Obama win.)

It’s amazing to me, how amazed so many of you seem to be about the importance of the abortion issue, now: table it, until after the election….? Where the fuck have you been for the last five years?
…Lady in Red

0

@BFH

Yah, that was my point too. I was just trying to come at it from the perspective of someone who had conflicting views of wartime killings vs. protecting the unborn.

Although, I do believe what I wrote.

+3

Jack,
You know how the despicable left massaged a “right to privacy” into an “abortion is legal” clause?

Nauseating, right?

I find that most religious scholars do the exact same thing, and it’s equally nauseating.

Whenever any person of any religion is boxed intellectually into a corner they have the magic escape hatch, which is a giant pile of steaming rationalization to prevent the devout from doing any heavy brain lifting.

Either a baby is innocent, or they ain’t. And if in some circumstances they ain’t, then they ain’t.

I consider a welfare queen an enemy combatant.
And I have no trouble aborting her baby just the same way you rationalize away killing an innocent unborn because of “extraordinary circumstances” that you’ve massaged out of Biblical texts that do not mean the same thing as they do today.

These wars that are discussed in the Bible are not always between sovereign lands, these are often times holy wars against marauding tribes.
I see marauding tribes. I want to kill their unborn. Okay?

+4

Dear Lir

Thanks for the shout out and gracious feedback.

Also, thanks for reminding me to get out there and cut my grass…
and I may just have a shot of Jack in Jack Daniels honor.

0

Yeah, putting Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the title has Asian Singles ads in the side column too.

I’ll be back later.

+3

Miss Red:

“….You shit the mess and now you will swim in it. Can’t back track until “after the election.” It’s been your centerpiece stealth issue for eternity….”

You missed the entire point of what I said, just so you could crow about your one-trick pony of an issue. And don’t be so fuggin smug about it!

My point was that the Republican platform has always contained similar anti-abortion language. This is NOTHING new.

What is new, is that a self-serving idiot wannabe republican senatorial candidate has handed a machete of an issue to a party of blood-thirsty Hutu’s, who will stop at nothing to hold on to their power in order to destroy this country. The stakes have never been this high.

Don’t be so sanctimonious and self-serving. Neither I nor any other Republican “shit this mess”. The republicans have done nothing different than in elections past. This controversy has been ignited and fueled by the democraps. It doesn’t make your postion correct in any way, shape or form.

+4

I understand, Mr. B.S. And, the platform has always been wrong, anti-individual freedom, liberty.

Akin blew it, big. But the forced birthers have been flexing their muscles more than ever before, of recent.

*My* point is that it is going to cost Romney the election not because you don’t “believe” in forced birthing, not that it has not always been the objective of the forced birthing community to impose their beliefs on all women –it’s *always* been the goal! — but, merely, that, this election you will be called on those beliefs more than ever before.

A year ago, I would have settled for this compromise: set aside the abortion issue until after the election; then, I’ll fight you. But, no: there was too much glee in the forced birthing community, too much glee that, if they didn’t win at a federal level, they’d claw back the right at the state level. It’s the *only* issue the folk (with whom I’d *like* to sit) have fought for, vehemently.

So, Akin’s exposed it. If not Akin, another, perhaps. But, this is not a faux issue, a misstatement of the fundamentalist position. I suspect Romney is a waffle on the issue, really. But, no Republican candidate, today, can say that abortion should be “rare, but legal” and hope to get elected.

There’s little wiggle room, there. …Lady in Red

0

BFH stated

Either a baby is innocent, or they ain’t. And if in some circumstances they ain’t, then they ain’t.

I consider a welfare queen an enemy combatant.
And I have no trouble aborting her baby just the same way you rationalize away killing an innocent unborn because of “extraordinary circumstances” that you’ve massaged out of Biblical texts that do not mean the same thing as they do today.

Now , I am no intellectual as yourself, but I can say by your words alone that you are pro-choice as opposed to what you said yesterday that your were against abortion.

+2

Oh, and Mr. B.S……

I am hardly a one trick pony, except here, where it’s been so very hard to make my point. The very sad thing is that abortion really is the least important issue facing America. I know that.
….Lady in Red

0

imho Rs have not said enough re: abortion and the evils of he11care. It is a direct assault on the first amendment, with plenty more to come if zer0 wins. The left worships at the altar of baby killing and we’re supposed to stfu? Anyone who has been paying attention understands ghouls like Sebelius and John Holdren would happily command unworthies to abort their babies. I would like to hear a coherent summary from pols on the right of why we must oppose the commie loons holding such enormous power over our healthcare. What I don’t need to hear is some halfwit talking out his arse about the subtleties of female reproduction.

http://dougpowers.com/2012/03/02/kathleen-sebelius/

0

Damn, Couldn’t even make it through the first few comments before I had to stop reading and scroll down to reiterate… NOBODY gives a shit what you think Looney In Red!!!

+6

No, Supertoe.
I’ve stated my stance many times.

Abortion is murder, I just don’t give a shit if a mother wants to kill her baby. I’m not going to make it my life’s mission to erect myself as a human shield for all these babies that I, frankly, do not give a shit about.

I am much more interested in stopping the death cult when it is state enforced.

Allowing a citizen to end his life with the aid of a physician is far different than the state coming in to inject your IV with cyanide against your wishes. And anyone that makes the leap from, “if you allow people to sign a contract to end their life the next stop is State Death Squads”, is being hysterical and this is not at all ipso facto.

When the state starts mandatory abortion it will have my full attention, as they have my attention now with death panels.
Until then, I don’t give a crap about mother’s committing legal infanticide.”

Personally, I would revoke Roe v Wade and put it to state referendums. The revocation wouldn’t be on moral grounds, it’s because it was arrived at in a horrible, horrible way. Judicial fiat is horrendous even when it concurs with your best interest.

+9

Well stated Fur. You layed it out there for all to see. I agree with much of what you said. Keep up the good fight – as must we all!

+5

You know what, come to think of it, I don’t need to read the comments before I post, because I don’t give a crap what anybody else thinks either. Right is right and wrong is WRONG.
There is a HELL of a difference between children and fetuses being killed as collateral damage in a just war for peace, and in specifically targeting and intimately and personally cruching the skull and sucking out the brains of a baby just because the circumstances of his or her conception are painful to the mother! That baby didn’t rape anyone! Why does it get brutally murdered while the actual rapist gets AT WORST some years of his life confined to a detention facility where he will most likely come out healthier than he went in? It is time to institute the death penalty for rape and child molestation, and stop cowering to Satan and his Democrat minions!!! There can be no compromise with Satan. And abortion is as Demonic as it comes! What about the mother having to live with a child that reminds her of the time she was brutally raped, you ask? Let it serve as a reminder of the time God saved her life and she not only survived the assault, she was blessed with one of God’s greatest gifts to confirm that “What Satan meant for her harm, God meant for good!!!

+9

I just want to say, don’t hold my opinions against iOTW.
I have no idea what the rest of the contributor’s stance is and I am not representing the site in totality, it’s just my asinine opinion.

And I would hope that say, Claudia, wouldn’t be reticent to stand up to my blathering for fear of reprisal, or anyone for that matter.
This isn’t Little Green Footballs.

+5

It’s a social issue not a political issue and at most should be left up to the state government to decide and even then it should not be funded by taxpayer money. People can kill their children if they want but call it what it is and don’t expect everyone to help fund it.

+8

Big Fur Hat you’re an arrogant long winded asshole. =D that should make everyone feel better to hear.

That’s it. You’re banned!! – Charles Johnson

+2

Somtimes i wish i wasn’t so short winded.

+2

It’s a moral issue, and morality is damn hard to legislate.

+4

kono
I hope you guys are happy after we lose this election. Why can’t you guys wise up and go for the low hanging fruit first? At least you would have a chance of making some sort of impact after our guys got in? I’m not seeing any logic in trying to drive this point home before the election.

+2

BB…I’ve stated on another thread that I think Akin has to go….we don’t have the luxury of time to defend and turn it around for him….but running scared with fear doesn’t sound like a very good position to be in either….and letting the left smell that fear is even dumber.

+3

No fear involved. That topic is an achilles heel for us and independents. It’s just being smart. We need to control the debated, and we can’t get votes with that one.

+3

In order for JUSTICE to happen in this world, one can NOT simply apply the LAW blindly.
One needs an ECONOMY of Justice, able to inspire respect for the Rule of Law and the Constitution, AND to take into account the SINGULARITY of some cases, and thus informing oneself from LIFE as well as from the Law.

Otherwise, there are not any difference between us and the Talibanic stone-throwers.

Law shall be executed with GRACE.

Remember that Grace stopped the stoning of Magdelena.

To deactivate the LAW in some exceptional cases is not to ABOLISH or to DESTROY the Law…

+3

Kono…. Akin is irrelevant. The GOP platform on abortion is long time unchanged. The only difference is that this is the first time the forced birthing community has come so close to winning: to making abortion illegal for all women at all times.

Here’s an interesting cut on Paul Ryan’s views from today’s London Telegraph: “Rape is rape…”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-election/9493218/US-election-rape-is-rape-period-end-of-story-says-Paul-Ryan.html

If the Constitution and the debt were more important to the right wing, those issues should have been shoved higher on the agenda — and the state abortion stealth issue (force ultra-sounds on women seeking abortions, force clinics to widen hallways, accommodate half dozen ambulances in the parking lots) — should not have been so important, such a unrelenting fight for so long.

Sad. Just sad; that’s all.
…Lady in Red

+1

Don’t forget : not all homicides are murders…

+2

Many, many thumbs up to Maudie, tommy, reddecaesari & Racist…spot on.

Don’t know why you can’t wrap your head around INTENTIONAL baby killing and the UNINTENTIONAL blood shed of the innocents killed fighting evil BFH. It’s not that hard of a concept.>>>

God is on America’s side? God is American? I didn’t know that. Good to know.

Again, your statement fails in logic because I was told that the morning after pill is not acceptable, either. I pointed out that there is no way of knowing whether you are preventing conception or ending conception, or doing neither, when you take that pill after being raped.
That is not good enough for the absolutist because they say it is a rationalization when you fully well know you *could” be ending cell division.
Well, when you go to war there is no such thing as “unintentional killing.” Your intention when you drop bombs is to kill, and babies get killed. If your intention is to not kill babies, don’t drop any bombs.

When you go to war you fully well know that innocent unborn “could” be killed, but you rationalize it away that you are fighting evil.
Does the Bible have a “no communism” chapter that I missed?
I missed the chapter on the necessity and absolution when you kill your fellow man when there is an issue of state’s rights at stake. That is PURE EVIL, I tell ya.

I am not anti-war, I see the necessity for it at times, and I know babies will be killed.
I’m not the one looking the other way and putting fingers in my ears and pretending that some innocent babies lives are expendable because God told you you’re on the righteous side.
Maybe the enemy should show up with Bibles instead of bullets and then you’ll be forced into not dropping bombs because you won’t be sure which side God is endorsing.

+4

You are killing me!!!!!

+5

Suppose a woman is impregnated by a demon, a goat or a dog, or a disgusting freaking degenerate Arab rapist: if she wants to abort, WHO are we to prohibit her from doing so?

No, in some cases, it’s her NATURAL right.

Tje problem here is the collision between Natural Law and the Law of the Land; it’s a collision between LIFE and the written Law.

Life can deactivate the Rule of Law — EXCEPTIONALY — and this exception is not destroying the Republic, the Constitution and the effectivity of the Law. It is simply neutralizing its application in a singular case.

+2

“There can be no compromise with Satan. And abortion is as Demonic as it comes! ”

Yes, BUT the mother in some singular CAN have a good case for KILLING the baby. SHE will face Christ, her Judge, eventually — and if she is OK with killing the baby AND feel in a state of GRACE — then in what Right could we stop her ??

She could invoke SOVEREIGN power as a SOVEREIGN individual here, on earth — as long as she feels OK vis-a-vis our Master, Jesus-Christ.

We can NOT assume that ALL abortions are a satanic operation.

+4

I’m not sure *I* could take it, up close, but I do think Katechon has the qualifications to serve as an American taliban circuit court judge, when God deems the time is right. ….Lady in Red

0

“American taliban”

LOL 2 insults for the price of 1!

0

BFH is an idiot on this subject.

The Law of Moses does not prohibit killings, it prohibits MURDERS.
Not all homicides are murders.
It can be JUST to kill some people in some circumstances, and we can not have a general rule here. It always depends. Each case is different. And this is not relativism btw.

There are JUST Wars, and Just Homicides, and there can be JUST abortions too.

+2

“…forced birthing.”

__
doesn’t exist

+3

The 4 Sins that Cry Out to Heaven

Willful murder – check

The sin of Sodom – check

Oppression of the poor – check

Defrauding laborers of their wages – check

Well, we’re already 4/4 here. We’re fucked either way. Ever look back at history and make comparisons to modern life? We’re on the brink of collapse. Do you really believe that moral standing can be regulated thru politics? These truths above are timeless. Over and over again nations who were once great succumbed to those corruptions either collapsing on their own or thru invasion and war. As long as we condone abortion, sodomy, a welfare state and outrageous taxes and debts we’re doomed.

Think about this: Which culture teaches against abortion, sodomy, sloth and monetary cheating?

They’re already here. The stage is being set. It’s the same play book of the fall of Rome except our barbarians come from the middle east. They’re all over Europe too. They will be allowed to conquer us if we don’t change direction with those 4 ills we let slip in under the guise as benevolence.

You’re free to ignore all this as the topic on this thread is about abortion aka the willful murder of the most precious and vulnerable among us. The pro-abortionist (LIR), the apathetic (BFH,etc)and the rest who actually get “it.”

Note:
Genesis 4, Genesis 18, Exodus 2, James 5, respectively.

+6

BFH–

“I see marauding tribes. I want to kill their unborn. Okay?”

No, not okay. The marauding tribes are the enemy. Their unborn are not. What you describe is intentional genocide. That is most definitely NOT okay.

+1

p.s. Unless God told you to kill their unborn. Do you wish to claim that?

+1

And well deserved insults, too, Xavier! Katechon and the other Biblical literalists, Christian fundamentalists not content with their private religious beliefs, but needing to impose those beliefs upon all — just like the taliban — faux Founding Father conservatives/libertarians….

….Christian wolves in Founding Father sheep clothing…. just cost us — the true fiscal conservatives, the social libertarians, the Christians with an understanding of the world that transcends the King James’ version — the election.

And, I should be sorry about the insult? He, they, haven’t a clue what they’ve done: re-elected Obama.

Maybe, a God-sent hurricane, postponing the Tampa convention, will allow some time for re-grouping, but I think there are too many forced birthing groupies in the GOP camp to allow it, at this late date. ….Lady in Red

0

“The Ten Commandment does not say, thou shalt not kill, like so many people misquote, rather it says Thou shalt not murder! ”

– Jack Daniels

Ditto !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+2

Everyone debating this issue on this thread needs one another. We are not the enemy of each other, and I think we should suspend this thread until after November? No?

It will be a spirited moral and intellectual exercise if we can debate this as winners in Novemeber
If we lose November, it will be a dispirited moral and intellectual exercise in futility.

They will have the Supreme Court and there will be no stopping them.

So, my advice, cling to your Bibles and stow away your guns and I’ll see you in the foxhole.

Don’t look at me funny when I am for the pregnant leftist. (Kidding FBI and SECRET SERVICE. I’m a comedian!!!! hands off.)

+4

Here is a test: Fill the reason in-
This baby is……. so kill it.
For example- This baby is inconvenient, so kill it.
This baby will make it difficult for me to fit in my bridesmaids dress in a couple of months- so kill it. This baby is a mistake- so kill it. Compared with- This baby is in my 12 year old daughter who was raped and having the baby may kill my daughter- so kill it. Or This baby may cause me to lose my life and I have 3 kids that need their mom- so kill it. In some cases potential life takes second place to current life. There has to be exceptions. If there was a law that all woman have an ultrasound to listen to the heartbeat of their baby and see the life that is there it would go a long way towards eliminating the more casual abortions of convenience.

+5

” Katechon …. not content with their private religious beliefs, but needing to impose those beliefs upon all — …”

What are you talking about ??

I’m not a literalist, dear Lady. Where do you take this from ?

Are you being a bad, naughty Lady?

+5

Dear Bloody Lady,

I’ve wrote “one can NOT simply apply the LAW blindly”

Same as : we can not apply the letter of the Law.

And then you say I’m a literalist, a Talibanist, a stone-thrower?

Are you a Lady in Retarded Land?

+4

Maybe, a God-sent hurricane, postponing the Tampa convention, will allow some time for re-grouping, but I think there are too many forced birthing groupies in the GOP camp to allow it, at this late date. ….Lady in Red

Exactly, Lets remember why the Tea Party was created, accomplish that, and move on from there.

+2

I’m outta here, Fur.

I will continue to “do my part” to win, but…. I only wish that there were a greater understanding among the fundamentalists about what they have accomplished vis a vis the election. They can’t blame this on the Dems, “exposing” Akin. It *is* what they want, at least until forced to pay The Ultimate Price: re-election of the worst president in America’s history. …but…but, this is really about the economy, the debt, socialism, Obamacare….

*Now* you say that?

(…As well as what they have tried, sadly, for so long to impose upon the nation. They won’t succeed.)

Now: back to IOTW funny stuff and trying to beat Obama. ….Lady in Red

0

““I see marauding tribes. I want to kill their unborn. Okay?””

BFH is trolling a lot.

Warfare is among men — among armies of men, united behind a hierarchy of leaders.

Real men do not kill voluntarily women, children and the elderly of the Enemy: but their young men of war.
It can happen as collateral, but not as a strategy.

+3

Does anyone here care that the spartans way back when murdered their children if they showed any signs of metal illness, disfigurement, or weakness but are now huge figures taught in history?

0

Spartans were real men katechon.

+1

Yes, but it was not in warfare.

A sovereign male was master of his domain ( ). He has the sovereign power of life and death over his cattle, his slaves, his wife and his children.

Were he to kill his children, it was not part of a military strategy agains the enemy. That was my point.

Capiche?

+3

“We are not the enemy of each other, and I think we should suspend this thread until after November? No?”

Alright I’ll change the subject.

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2012/08/scienceshot-cats-dont-cause-canc.html

+3

@Hannah–

The Spartans cared for nothing but conquest, war, and military control. Everything else was subordinated to that. They were “real men”? No, they were monomaniacs. And we should emulate them?

When I learned history, I was not taught to idolize the Spartans. If that is the case now, then it has changed immensely. Not surprising, considering how corrupted the teaching of history has become.

+3

A sovereign male was master of his domain

0

>>“I see marauding tribes. I want to kill their unborn. Okay?”>>

>No, not okay. The marauding tribes are the enemy. Their unborn are not. What you describe is intentional genocide. That is most definitely NOT okay.>>

Then why did we drop 2 bombs on Japan fully knowing that we we’re going to kill innocent unborn?

>>p.s. Unless God told you to kill their unborn. Do you wish to claim that?>>

No. But that is exactly what Kono claims, that God has given a dispensation on the killing of innocents because they are collateral damage in the fight against evil.

I’m just continually pointing out that Christians have built-in escape hatches in the form of rationalization on the issue of killing the unborn, yet they will not move one inch, or rationalize an iota, when we are in a war of ideology that could very well end the grand experiment called The United States of America.

I posted the abortion thread, as well as the assisted suicide thread, to see where we stand.

The assisted suicide thread showed me. The Christians seek to impose their morality based on their belief that suicide is a sin and that no man will be allowed to end his own life even when rapt with pain, misery and suffering, and even when they do not believe in their God.

There is nowhere to go from that stance. It is unconstitutional, but the Christians don’t see it that way. They think the constitution is a coupon that was included in the Bible.

The 1st amendment clearly states that the state cannot impose the religious beliefs of one religion upon it’s citizenry. You can make suicide illegal, but that law is not bound because of what the Bible says. So that law can be repealed. One Christian. One Vote.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know I broke my own declaration that I would bow out, but Mary is one of my very, very favorite readers, and I couldn’t resist.

Now. I am out! (I hope.)

+2

IN SPARTA*

There were freaking pagans, but weirdly animated by the LOGOS, which is REASON, and thus inpired by God.

0

BFH —
You are conflating different ECONOMIES:

– warfare against a freaking JAPANESE EMPIRE does not coincide with a mother aborting.

Those are parallel ligns, that will never touch.

You can not make analogy, here.

+1

I hope someone had the presence of mind to lay newspapers under Lady in Red before this article was posted.

+3

“Spartans were real men katechon.”

Yes, but I was referring to warfare.

A sovereign Spartan man was master of his domain (oikos). He had the sovereign power of life and death over his cattle, his slaves, his wife and his children.

I was talking warfare against an enemy. His slaves or his children were not his enemy.

You get what I’m sayin’?

+1

I don’t have much to say about abortion other than men have no say in what happens after their child is conceived, which seems like a raw deal if the conception was due to a real, loving relationship and not rape or incest.

That there are so many abortions as an afterthought form of birth control is a sign of a sick society. I wish we were better than that. But I don’t think any woman should be forced to carry the spawn of a rapist. It denies her the choice in reproducing. It should be her decision alone in that case. If there are spiritual consequences, they are also hers alone.

Other than that, abortion is a distraction from issues that could win or lose the election for the right, and it seems it’s been that way since I can remember. The left is very good at bringing up abortion before every election to divide fiscal and social conservatives.

+2

@BFH–

When we dropped the bombs, those responsible knew that innocents would be killed. I don’t believe the planners sat around and said to each other, “Oh, goody, that’ll kill their women, children, and unborn also. Let’s wipe ‘em ALL out.”

As pointed out above, the decision to drop the bombs was made in order to shorten the war and save the lives of others. Some were sacrificed to save others. (Truman knew that innocent lives would be lost, but somehow I don’t see him celebrating the kill count demographics afterwards.)

Whatever any of us think of the historical justification for using the bombs, it was not genocide.

+2

Let me turn this around: WHY are we making exceptions for rape and incest? What is the justification? An innocent unborn child, who committed no crime, must be sacrificed because someone else did? “But it will save lives in the long run.” Okay. How? What are your figures for justifying that? Let’s see your numbers. I just don’t buy it. The dead at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were collateral damage in a war effort. Is that how you would describe the children of rape and incest? Collateral damage in what war?

+2

I cheerfully count myself among the ranks of the “absolutists” – and I apologize that I didn’t read through every single post – but caught the majority of them. Timwi makes the most compelling reason for the exceptions – but even then, the cases where the mother’s life is in jeopardy are very rare I believe.

Big Fur Hat – I think you are very wrong on this one – but that doesn’t make me discount all the other times I’ve thought you spot on in your comments. That goes for many of you here. I was surprised to see the takes some of you had (all except LIR of course – How’s that Ron Paul presidency BTW??) – because most of the time I agree with the majority of you all as well.

I do agree with BFH in that perhaps this is a discussion best tabled for after November. For the most part, we are all friends here with like ideas. Why fracture the cohesiveness now because of one man’s bad choice of words and the media’s feeding frenzy that has resulted?

Just my two-cents – sorry getting late in the discussion.

+5

@Gryph

We are slave in Christ but sovereign individual among men.
In some cases the mother can use her sovereign prerogative. Who the hell are you to stop her?

0

@mkultra – LOL!!!

+2

“The 1st amendment clearly states”

Really? Where? You are projecting and it is quite a bit over much.

I read your diatribe. Thought a few caustic thoughts and now I’ve come back a few hours later to see how the world has turned.

You call my okay-ed-ness with killing the enemy wholesale [and we don't need to go to 1945, I'd really like to finish what Israel started in late '67] some kind of escape hatch.

I call your myopic understanding of LIFE totally bewildering and I suspect you are pandering to the few remaing ‘independents’ that obowmao has yet to piss off. Either that or your secretly a Paulbot. I really can’t tell.

btw- I agree with Rush’s definition of independents.

+1

@Katechon

Thou shalt not kill. Therefore we have laws against it. The decalogue doesn’t say “thou shalt not kill after 20 weeks from conception.” It’s just a plain and simple “thou shalt not kill.” The whole “sovereign among individual men” thing does not abrogate God’s law against killing another human being.

0

“Thou shalt not kill.”

Bullshit.
Thou shall kill the evil-doer, otherwise thou is a gay brainless pussycat.

+3

What are our reasons for opposing abortion?

Because it kills an innocent baby?

If that’s the reason, it should be illegal, no matter what. Any other position is illogical and inconsistent.

If it’s not a baby, who cares?

What do we want to do, stand fearlessly for the right of some but not all innocent people to live? Not so inspiring.

+3

BFH–

“They [the Christians] think the constitution is a coupon that was included in the Bible.”

What I wouldn’t give for a time machine, so I could bring some of the Founders right here, right now, to hear what they might say about this interesting statement.

+2

What the hell Fur….where did I say God was American and only for Americans? I never said or implied that….you’re acting like a stinking liberal. Why do you think we have been the most blessed nation on earth? Could it possibly be that our founding fathers, and therefore our founding documents held God in His rightful position of Holiness? That’s not to say that we are a nation of sinless people….but that we WERE a people who held God in reverence…and therefore was blessed by Him…and that maybe just maybe we should stick with those principles which made us the greatest nation on earth. Do you have a problem with that Obama..er Fur?

And BTW…there are absolutes.

+5

yup ..keep disputing everyone, that’s exactly what the left wants.

0

@gryph, the same God who gave the commandment, thou shalt not kill, also allowed for capital punishment within the same law. He obviously meant thou shalt not murder.

+3

No, Gina, this isn’t a dispute–it’s a serious and lively discussion.

You know, a discussion of different points of view–that thing the Left won’t allow its people to have for anything? Because they’re not allowed to have independent thoughts.

+3

Is there no room in your religion for compassion or mercy towards victims who did not ask to be carrying a rapist’s child? What of a 13 year old incest victim? What of a mentally handicapped woman who isn’t capable of caring for herself much less a baby?

I see a gray area, an area that should be addressed individually and privately, without government or religious doctrine intruding. There are situations that don’t always fit into the pigeonholes we humans love so much.

+4

I am reposting a comment I made in an earlier thread about this topic. It has to do with choosing between the life of the mother or the baby, if the birth of the baby will result in the death of the mother.

“…..@Xavier – I just re-read that statement and I tend to agree with you. If it’s not a typo, then the Repubs are saying we value the life of the baby above ALL else, including the life of the mother.

If that is correct, then they stepped in it big time. I have a daughter who was born with a serious congenital heart defect. After many surgeries, pace makers and regular monitoring, she has grown to an adult woman and is even pregnant with our first grandchild.

I give you that background because pregnancy is a high-risk condition for a woman with her heart condition. The blood flow increases 40% and puts an enormous strain on her heart.

The doctors have repeatedly told her throughout the term that the life of the mother comes before the life of the baby.

Now I suppose that is a “choice”, but they are saying that “we want Mom to live another day to possibly have another chance at adopting, if not bearing, children”. Rather than the alternative, which is that the baby lives, but has no mother to raise it. Which makes more sense?…..”

For you absolutists, are you willing to let your own daughter die, so that her baby can be born?

+4

It’s too easy to dismiss Christian teachings and believers as extremist and crack pots. Do you think this is the 1st time in Christianity’s existence that there was ridicule of the conviction of them?

The founder’s of the church were educated and smart. They were well read in philosophers of ancient Greece and others. With all the writings and testimonies left behind from the earliest writers of the Gospels they discerned, they argued, they prayed for what this new religion meant. Why dismiss the legitimacy of Christian philosophy in this argument when the secular laws were written by men just like those who solidified the early church?

There are consequences for our actions right or wrong, singularly and collectively. If a society at large condones and allows a barbaric practice to continue eventually the piper will be paid.

+4

What a shame that so many of us truly believe that one previously obscure man’s singular gaffe has lost the entire election for us only a mere week after Joe Biden’s gaffe-a-palooza.

The OwebamAA+ campaign is tailspinning, folks! They have resorted to telling the media what to say! They are avoiding national media! These and other incidents underscore the massive uptick in media watercarrying that I still have faith in the garden variety voter to see for what it transparently is.

As Rush says, if you’re on the defensive, if you’re explaining, then you aren’t winning. I’ve used this Akin development as fodder to go on the offensive.

Yes, what Akin said was absurd. Almost as absurd as the suggestion that life doesn’t begin until “a collection of matter” has escaped the womb.

Yes, what Akin said was offensive. Nearly as offensive as the practice of partial birth abortion. Or worse, infanticide. For every Akin there is on this rock, there are scores more would-be mothers that have shirked their responsibility.

Use Akin’s words as opportunity to contrast just how extreme the liberal ideology truly is.

+5

@Stirrin the B.S.

I wrote a reply to that this morning and then decided not to post it. There’s one more scenario – where both the mother and child are lost – and traditionally, that was the case. An unborn child who survived the mother’s death was a miracle.

As I said in the post above yours, there have to be exceptions – things just aren’t always as black and white as we’d like. The question you ask should be handled on a personal level, by the family and trusted Doctors, without outside interference. I know what my choice would be – and I have a pretty good idea what yours would be – but we also need to allow others to make their own decisions.

Now, perhaps I’m biased to Stirrin the B.S.’s situation, because I too was born with a congenital heart defect which fortunately has been corrected. (fingers crossed) Now I’m not planning on getting pregnant anytime soon, but it just goes to show that this type of thing isn’t that unusual.

You be sure to let us know when the new addition arrives, y’hear?

+4

I got one fer ya’s. A two fer. Remember that SOB Austrian father who kidnapped his daughter, held her hostage, raped her, had babies with her all in a cellar dungeon?

Six of those kids survived. If asked, do you think those kids would say they would have rather been aborted than born into a really fucked up situation?

Here’s how they’re all doing today:

According to The Independent online newspaper, Elisabeth Fritzl and her children are now coping remarkably well, given the difficult lives they endured for so long.[64] According to Fritzl’s sister-in-law, Christine, Elisabeth enjoys spending her time shopping, taking frequent showers, and driving. She has just passed her driving test without difficulty. Her relationship with Thomas, one of her bodyguards, is ongoing and he has become a big-brother figure to her children. All of Elisabeth’s children have developed normal sibling relationships with each other, and after having trouble dealing with the traumatic events, the three “upstairs” children have begun recognizing Elisabeth as their mother. The children enjoy being outdoors, playing video games, and spending time with their mother and grandmother. Despite their strained relationship, Elisabeth and her mother Rosemarie have begun visiting each other more, and Elisabeth has reportedly forgiven her mother for believing her father’s story and not pursuing the matter further.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case

+2

@Kono
BFH is trolling, don’t worry. Or he’s an idiot, and we should indeed be a bit worried.

@Xavier
Sure, Christianism and Judaism are religions animated by Grace: witness the messianic community in Judaism, and the Person of Christ immolating Himself in order to buy our souls back from Satan, and host us in the House of the LORD !!

Grace and redemption exceed the Law.

This is why we are not blindly applicating the Law in ALL cases; this is why we are sovereign individuals on earth, with dignity, object of pardon, and subject of forgiveness: there is room for exceptions. In some rare cases.

+3

The election is not lost. It’s unfortunate for those of us who support the life of the unborn that we would like to see abortion stopped in this country or at least leave it up to the states but no one is going to take down Roe vs Wade anytime soon. Us crack pots and extremist will be relegated back under the rug again.

Don’t say we didn’t warn ya.

+7

@Frosteetoes

Any rational person would be happy that this woman’s life has turned out as well as it has. Good for her, and may she be an example to others. We need to remember though, not everyone has the physical or inner strength to endure what she did. I’m not saying every rape victim should abort – only that they should have options.

+2

If trolling can be defined as challenging other’s beliefs in order to stage a lively discussion that goes on in ethics classrooms, philosophy classrooms, legal classrooms every day, ya, I’m a troll.

Can we dispense with the “you’re a liberal”, “you’re a paulbot” “you’re an idiot” stuff? (UPDATE: On second thought, calling me an idiot is perfectly valid.)

Ya, this was my plan all along, to devote every waking hour of the last 3 years with all of you, in an effort to crush the left, in order to sneak in my opinion on absolutism to a captive audience of 100 or so people interested enough to hang in there on this thread.

Jesus Chrysler.
My position is not extreme.
I see absolutists on this issue, no killing of the unborn under any circumstance, justifying the killing of the unborn in “special circumstances.”
My point is, cannot a woman take a rape pill at the hospital if she does not want to carry the dna of her rapist in her body.
Absolutist? NO
Is that REALLY murder? Seriously, a fertilized egg
that barely has begun dividing from a single cell?
C’mon. Meanwhile some of these absolutists want the middle -east turned to glass.

Yes. This position of mine makes me A LIBERAL!!!!!
You sound foolish.

And yes, it’s in the constitution. The government cannot impose Christian values upon me. And if I was a bishop I would agree with that amendment because it’s not a condemnation of Christianity.
It’s a condemnation of a theocracy.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

The establishment of a national religion by Congress is unconstitutional.

As soon as you insist that assisted suicide remain illegal because the Bibl….. BUZZZZZZZZZZ.

Wrong answer. That’s why you can’t participate in assisted suicide. Not a Buddhist.

0

I’m sorry BFH — but you do words into other folks’ arguments. You did not seem of good faith when arguing. If I’m wrong, my bad, and please accept my apols.

” justifying the killing of the unborn in “special circumstances.””

Pfffttt. Not really justifying, just :

1)recognizing the LIMITS of our knowledge;

2) we are not the final Judge, it’s God for Jews, and the Person of Christ (His Son) for the rest: if a mother aknowledges and sovereignly assumes responsibility of her act, WHO are we to stop her? At some point, in SOME cases, it’s between her and God. It has nothing to do with JUSTIFICATION.

+1

” you do PUT* words into other folks’ arguments”

0

Xavier, from the view of the children who came into the world into a miserable existence, with health and mental problems and most likely genetic disorders down the road, who are overcoming the bad circumstances…..if they were asked if they would have never been born and their mother should have aborted them if she could, how would the children, the product of incest and rape, answer?

We detach ourselves from the fact that we use to be zygotes too at one time.

0

@Xavier -

Thanks for your support, and I’m glad that you too have benefitted from our amazing medical technology – no thanks to Obummercare. I will let you know when my grandson arrives – right now he’s scheduled to arrive 9/17.

Even though I posted my particular situation late in this thread, I find it interesting that no one so far has responded to the question of, do you choose your daughter’s life or your daughter’s unborn baby’s life?

+2

1] We have more in common than in difference – don’t let this divide us at this critical moment.

2] If somehow all abortion and RU-whatever disappeared today, it wouldn’t matter that much to me because I think the vast majority of abortion in the U.S. is unnecessary and is actually after-the-fact contraception.

3] My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that the left successfully portrays (what was BFH’s word?) ‘absolutists’ in a way that many women find threatening. You have to find a way to rebut that and convince women that you don’t represent an authoritarian system that wants control over their bodies.

@Frosteetoes

I know you and I will never agree on this, and it’s alright – I have no hard feelings and actually understand, and respect, your position.

+5

Katechon, mudd and Jack you all rock! Thanks for saying what I couldn’t in a concise and powerful way.

Fur….I will pray that the H.S. fills your heart and soul to the brim…..and also all the rest of you here at iOTW…night all…Goin salmon fishing in the morning with hubby.

+6

Xavier, I love your kitty avatar.

Opinions differ on some things but we’re all in this together. It’s a polarizing topic, easier to get involved in anonymously on the internet than face to face. It’s too important to get Obama out and as far away from any influence that he can have over policies. I’ll quietly vote my conscious. We all have to no-matter what we believe. <3

+5

Well, movin’ right along….

My Stanford physicist friend from h.s. derided me about guns. “Surely,” she exhorted, “no reasonable person could be against the ‘gun show loophole’ and a ban on assault weapons?”

My elbow started twitching. Nah, fully automatic assault weapons probably aren’t needed (until the revolution, but, by then, we will have to have the cooperation of the American military, I suspect) and I had to look up the “gun show loophole.”

Here’s Wiki on gun shows (as well as Fast and Furious ATF “research):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_shows_in_the_United_States

The problem: on the left, they want to take *all* your guns, but they’ll claw at it, one law at a time. But I *know* where the bastards are headed.

BTW, here’s a pretty hard-to-refute analysis where Obama’s going on the gun issue, after he wins:

http://www.nrapublications.org/index.php/13738/contemptible/

On the “right” side of the church we have the forced birthers, pondering if, ever, there is a need to consider the wishes, wants, *life* of a walking-talking real live woman over that of some “potentiality.”

Maybe we should make “late term abortion” illegal? How can one destroy the “life” of a fetus one day before birth? Huh? How about 30, or 60 days before birth? Huh?

Ok. You won’t go there? How about we just make all abortion clinics widen their corridors by two feet so that ambulances can drive inside and transport dying women, bleeding to death from botched abortions, to the hospital? Who could oppose that, huh?

It’s the same argument, boys and girls. Obama wants all your guns, all the time. Every time he gets an inch, he’ll take it and move a little farther.

The forced birthers want all women to birth all the time. No exceptions, but if they have to claw at that objective law by law, they will.

I know where both sides are headed. I don’t like it one damn bit.

Now, Fur, when is the funny stuff going to resume and I can begin trying to forget what the forced birthing community has done to trash the Constitution and a chance for a balanced budget, a move away from socialism? We need a little music here, folk! Go ahead: pretend you’re not responsible for this mess. …it was Akin’s fault…. and the MSM, the LSM…. not *me*!

Music, maestro! ….Lady in Red

0

I’m going to ask it again to the “no exception, absolutists”:

If the medical condition of your daughter will cause her to die if she takes her baby to term and delivers, are you willing to let that happen for the sake of the unborn child?

This is not a “gotcha” question, it is a legitimate moral dilemma, and I really want to know how you would respond to that scenario.

+1

bfh….just popped onto Ann’s blog….please go take a look at yesterday and Monday’s posts. I just scaned them quickly but will get back to it Friday….lmk what you think. Thanks

+1

Lady in Red =

0

X: “We have more in common than in difference – don’t let this divide us at this critical moment.”

I tried stating that way up, yet it was lost in the flood of ideology understandably due to the very reason you mention. As Ackbar said, “It’s a trap!”

Obeyme is on the ropes, people! There is no sense in regrouping when we can flank!

+2

I’m telepathically fORCinG yOu to b1rTH, Lady in Red!!Eleventy!!

And it’s been really difficult because:
a. you claim to be over 65 so you went through menopause when Carter was in office.
b. you haven’t had any equipment since you announced your hysterectomy.
c. I’m still not convinced you were born a woman and aren’t just another old internet fag.

…Pro-life Christian Taliban

+4

…telepathic pro-life Christian Taliban, that is.

+5

Ann made me laugh : ” If you don’t understand this, surrender your drivers license immediately and hire a nurse to take care of you.”

http://barnhardt.biz/

+1

And MK-Ultra, whenever I see your “handle” I wonder, wonder, wonder….?

….silly me. Just a hemidemisemiquaver of a
concern:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

Just a fleeting cold breeze, I am sure.
…..Lady in Red

+1

laugh all you want, Lady in Red, but I’ve seen to it that you’ll never have another abortion again.

bwahahahahahahahahahaha *choke* haha *ahem* hahahahahahaha ahahahahahahaha.

+4

….and I’m quite tall, lean, and beautiful, MK-Ultra. Did I tell you that, for your witch’s brew, telepathic mix? ….smile. ….Lady in Red

PS: Come on, Fur. Cut the comments here. It’s a depressing funeral, debating angels on the head of pins. We can pick ourselves up and try to win in November. That’s all. The forced birthing shit will continue, just like the Afghan taliban stoning women in the name of God.

0

Lady, judging by your comments, you’re OBVIOUSLY an illiterate.

You accused me of being a fanatics of the written law!

You can’t compute what you read. So yes, I pray that you’re beautiful, at least!

+2

Me :” Otherwise, there are not any difference between us and the Talibanic stone-throwers.”

Lady in Red to me : ” you’re an American Taliban ”

+2

@Katechon

I just about choked when I read that American Taliban comment before.

+4

Yes, Lady in Red, you’ve described many characteristics of yourself over the years. You once compared yourself to Sigourney Weaver, ‘only prettier’. It might even have been in the same thread you were describing your genitals. I think our replies alternated between revulsion and pity for your vanity. Mostly revulsion if memory serve me.

+4

@LIR

You can gloat all you want over where the Republicans are where they are today on the abortion plank. But it’s your ilk that made abortion a campaign issue to begin with.

Without your (and your liberal/libertarian cohorts) demand to make abortion legal under ANY circumstances and at ANY time, it would not be the wedge issue that it is today.

So, getting back to my very first comment on this thread, look into your own mirror for the reason why Todd Akins’ position might re-elect Baraq Hussein Obumphuk.

+5

Ive said, “I’ll leave you with this” about a dozen times now. I’ve had more farewell concerts than Cher.

But, to be clear.

I WISH I could be a Christian like Ann Barnhardt She has clarity. I wish I had that clarity. You can’t manufacture it, you have to have been called upon.
And if I had to live in a theocracy, I’d choose the Christian theocracy.

I want to win elections and defeat the left. If my war room strategy offends, whoops.
Chalk it up to me being a whacky heretic.

I don’t think the “no abortion ever coalition” is going to win at the voting booth.
So what will the result be?
We’ll have Obama and an Obama court, your coalition will have no voice in the arena of governance, but you’ll still have your God and be able to live by your own principles just like you always have, and what will people like me have?

Bupkiss.

I had a chance to not have to fund abortions, which was enough for this heretic.

+3

Bit stubby, eh, MK-Ultra? And, chunky?

I’m sure that someone who’s suffered as you have the MK-Ultra experiments has an excuse for the forced birthing, fundamentalist brainwashing. Most, today, do not.

But, we got what we got. I gotta try to pick up votes for Romney/Ryan between now and November while stepping over the “logic” of the GOP forced birthing agenda. I will do my part. …because I believe in the *original* Constitution (not the travelling, evolving, transitioning one…) and in a balanced budget, and eliminating the debt. I believe in honoring our commitment to SS and Medicare for those who have no other options, now, but, at the same time, for expanding options for the kids, for the future. I do NOT believe in Ponzi schemes. I believe that guns are most safe and secure in the hands of patriotic Americans …. and that our gun laws should be enforced, not expanded. I believe, so much, in Israel. At the same time, America should stop throwing its weight around, the world’s policeman. I like Ron Paul, a lot. I hope for integrity and character in all our elected officials, in November, not in “to get elected” platitudes.

(Hell, I really like Akin, in that regard. He really means the forced birthing shit. It’s not a game for him.)

So, MK-Ultra, beyond forced birthing, one of these years (if we survive the next four of Obama), you’ll have to tell me what you believe in, value.
….Lady in Red

0

I’ll tell you what I don’t value, Lady in Red. I don’t value god-hating leftists and outright commies fabricating ‘the right to abortion’ out of whole cloth then demanding I pay for it with my tax dollars. I also don’t value abortion-crazed activists telling me I hate freedom because of my moral objections to this new found right – a ‘right’ by the way that our citizens managed to do without for 200 years.

I also don’t value the same screeching abortion activists who demand I pay more taxes to make up for the 50 million potential taxpayers who were victimized by this newly discover right and won’t be around to finance their killers’ retirement plans.

+6

Mr. B.S…..

This forced birthing mess is *my* fault? Because abortions are legal, and…. and what?

What is The Law Which Should Pertain to Abortions, Mr. B.S.? How would *you* have written the law so as not to make it a “wedge” issue? …Lady in Red

PS: You are starting to annoy me. This is idiocy, Mr. B.S.

0

@LIR

I must say, you never cease to amaze me. Sadly, so much of your previous posts have been about your extreme views about abortion. But this last comment finally expanded beyond that one-trick pony, and might just possibly revealed a little bit more about what you believe. Can it be so?

+1

Well, MK-Ultra, as I have written I am a Quaker. Quakers are without a dogma, a creed, although most, including me, identify, generally, as Christians, but not Biblical literalists. (I have such trouble with the Council of Nicea working to get themselves a fat retirement — for men only.)

No one “fabricated” the “right” to abortion out of whole cloth any more than the “right” to tooth extractions was “fabricated.” You have a “belief;” that is all. Do I have a right to be offended by your tooth extractions? Medicine is medicine. That is all; the rest is witchcraft belief. …double double boil and bubble….

Now, the really weird thing…. I’m not sure I get this, but…. are you writing that you resent the fact that, because women have aborted fetuses…. over the years…. there are 50 million “slaves” who won’t be paying for your retirement? Did I get that correctly?

Well, I suppose one couldn’t count tooth extractions as potential MK-Ultra slaves, but…. whew. That’s a stretch, guy! …Lady in Red

PS: Not “morbidly obese,” are you? Over 300 lbs, eh? Really expensive health care costs….? Needing massive Medicare to stay afloat, as it were….?

0

@Lady in Red, go ahead and make fun of my looks if it makes you happy. You’ll need to make them up as you go along because I’m not stupid or shallow enough to share that information on the internet with total strangers. So knock yourself out, old lady.

+3

A pregnancy is not tooth extraction nor is it a disease pathology, Lady in Red.

And I didn’t say anything about my retirement. I didn’t lose my a$$ in GM stock.

+2

I’m sorry, Mr. B.S….. …but you missed my question:

What, in your estimation, is The Law Which Should Pertain to Abortion? What is the law which would have not made this silly silly issue the defining wedge issue it has become?

Why, please, is the problem mine, not yours, not that of The Forced Birthing Community?
….Lady in Red

0

Not all the monomaniacs lived in Sparta.

+3

MK-Ultra…. I don’t care about your obesity, or not. And, I don’t mean to hurt you, or anyone, here.

I have given, of me, much, here.

I’m sad and frustrated the GOP is in the pickle it’s in. I’ll cope. Simply, I wanted to fight to win in November — and succeed.

We just got our odds slashed. Badly. And, none of the forced birthing community, here, is saying: sorry…. if only I’d known…

They really don’t care for the Constitution, the economy, the debt, etc. etc. etc. first. It just pisses me off. Big time.

An “I’m sorry; I didn’t realize what a game changer the issue is” would be appreciated.

Instead, the likes of Mr. B.S. writes that the forced birthing issue is *my* fault. Or, the Biblical literalists fall on their Bibles not caring if Obama wins, as long as they can shoot a “baby killing” doctor, (metaphorically, of course).

But, I’ve no interest in hurting you, MK-Ultra.
Tomorrow may be a brighter day. Maybe there’s a hurricane coming into Tampa…? …Lady in Red

0

Don’t be silly, Lady in Red. You can’t hurt me. Fire away.

+2

@LIR

“…..Instead, the likes of Mr. B.S. writes that the forced birthing issue is *my* fault…..”

Yes, in a round about way, you and your supporters’ adament demand for legal abortion brought about the need for conservatives to include anti-abortion statements in their platforms. Which in turn, created a wedge issue for progressives.

And because of the conservative response to your demands, you blame conservatives for bringing the wedge issue into play. At it’s core LIR, the wedge issue that might propel Obumphuk to a second term originates from you and your ilk.

oh, and btw you are really starting to annoy me too.

+5

Mr. B.S….. Women did not “demand” abortions any more than you demand tooth extractions. Or, your tonsils out. Or appendix….

….except that unlike “the sacred tooth” you believe that fetuses (unlike live sparky dogs and cats, about to die at the SPCA) are More Special…

….than….?

Well, Mr. B.S. I understand your “belief.” And I wish that, for the sake of the election, you believed that teeth had souls which only God could extract. It would have been easier on the country.

Nah, guy. Don’t blame me because modern medicine could allow women — for the first time in history — to more easily control their own bodies (not die in childbirth…. bless the little, suffering child brides!)

That was medicine. Period.

It is *you* and the forced birthers who have turned *medicine* into a witchcraft “belief” which allows you to poo-poo the murder of dogs and cats, the abuse of farm animals….

…but get all teary-eyed and absolutist over the elimination of a few unwanted fetuses.

Nah. I ain’t the crazy, witchcraft one. I even worry and care for the SPCA dogs and cats, as able.

It is the sick you’uns who have elevated the fetuses above all natural, God-reasonable reason.

Tell me about the law, you would approve, Mr. B.S. …there isn’t one. I know. You just snark and sneer. You can’t pin the tail on another donkey. The “tail” is on the forced birthing donkey and, win or lose, you will deal with it.

Going forward, I suspect there will be less glee about the issue than in the past. …Lady in Red

0

@LIR -

That was a pretty bizarre rant – almost alcohol inspired.

“….Women did not “demand” abortions any more than you demand tooth extractions…..”

If women did not demand abortions, why are we even having this discussion?

+6

@stirrin, this is her moral equivalence rant. Where she compares killing a human fetus with eating meat or allowing unspaid animals to un-adopted at the dog pound. And yes, she’s drinking right out of the bottle at this point. LOL

+7

Ahh Ghoul in Red is back again. How’s the medical waste business been treating you? Some days must be like an all you can eat buffet on high volume abortion days. Will you help Planned Infanticide Hood with their future campaign? Bring a friend buy one get one free abortion deal? Or preparing speeches for back to school coercing of scared young pregnant girls into murdering their unborn?

If you never aborted your own offspring where do you think your life would be right now? That’s a sincere question dear.

+3

Women were dying, Mr. B.S., in childbirth. Yesh.
…or back alleys, suffering coat hanger abortions.

Men were dying, too, with infected teeth extractions. Yep.

Medicine got better. That is all. …Lady in Red

0

Good night, MK-Ultra. I’m re-thinking that thingie about not wishing you emotional hurt. ….smile.
….Lady in Red

0

Frosty… The Most Wonderful Mother, Ever, in The Entire World spent many a volunteer year working for the organization you call, with cruelty, Planned Infantcide Hood.

You haven’t a clue, Frosty. ….Lady in Red

0

Wow, you’ve resorted to comparing a fetus in the womb to an infected tooth in the mouth.

Extracting (murdering) a baby from the womb is no different than extracting an infected tooth from the gum.

That is moral relativism on on display.

+2

If the medical condition of your daughter will cause her to die if she takes her baby to term and delivers, are you willing to let that happen for the sake of the unborn child?

This is not a “gotcha” question, it is a legitimate moral dilemma, and I really want to know how you would respond to that scenario.
******************************
If she was able to carry the baby to term, at about 28 weeks of gestation, the baby can survive outside the womb. An emergency Cesarean perhaps.

Every attempt should be made to save both the mother and the baby to the best ability of the medical staff. I wouldn’t fault the woman if her baby died due to a dire unintended medical emergency that had to be performed. But again, if that baby is viable enough to live outside the womb then save both.

+3

You haven’t a clue, Frosty

You haven’t a child LIR, just blood on your hands.

+4

Well, I can assure you there weren’t wire coat hanger abortions prior to 1903:

Fascinating facts about the invention of
Wire Coat Hanger by Albert J. Parkhouse in 1903. WIRE COAT HANGER
http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/coathanger.htm

+4

Damn, but it appears the forced birthing anthill has been kicked. Big time.

No one cares about the election, now. Another four years for the Obama kid!

We are going to have Frosty discourses on wire coat hanger abortions, post 1903. …Lady in Red

0

Mr. B.S… I am not the moral relativist: you are.

I believe that women have a right to abortion. Period. All times. All reasons. ‘Twould be nice if abortion were “legal, but rare” but I will settle for simple legal.

You were the one, I believe, who was trying to figger out, just when, an abortion *might* be ok…. trying to write a law to define your witchcraft belief morality.

It wasn’t me, Mr. B.S., waffling. I’m clear, simple. Women should have a right to an abortion. And, it is none of your business why. There is no moral relativism there. All women. All the time. …have a right to the medical procedure called an abortion. It is their business, not yours. Period.

I wonder what part of “…all the time…” “their right…” “…whenever…” “…legal, but rare — IF POSSIBLE…” you don’t get.

Yep. Just like a tooth extraction. …Lady in Red

0

@LIR–

It sounds like you are defending the slaughter of infants on the altar of sexual freedom.

Do I understand that correctly?

+4

Miss Red ,

I wonder what part of moral relativism you don’t get. To equate an abortion to a tooth extraction is about as arbitrary and subjective as Hitler deciding that Jews were an inconvenience and a scourge to society.

Yes Miss Red, you are very clear. You (and your ilk) hold the power over the defenseless – just as Hitler held the power over the Jews – and you determine who lives and who dies.

A very convenient and gratifying position to assume.

+3

Yep, Mary from Marin (btw, I was there last week)… I am defending the “slaughter of infants,” as you put it, on the altar of sexual freedom. …sigh…

Yep. And tooth extractions, Mr. B.S.

I read an interesting book, recently, Mr. B.S. It’s “How Do You Kill 11 Million People?” It’s about a lot of genocides, but, mostly, Hitler. And, mostly, the answer to the question is that you lie to them.

Then, they load their wives, children, themselves into the cattle cars with little fuss. No need for muss and many soldiers. Everyone goes, understanding the lie.

The taliban, in Afghanistan, is the same. The same lie. Only different. And, the American taliban has another lie, a little different, about sacred tooth extractions…. or not eating snails? …or, I forget….? Is it about All Women Must Be Forced to Birth At All Times Because I Speak With God and God Said So…? Ah, that’s This Big Lie. …the lie in America. …Lady in Red

0

Time to shut her down?

Just thinking out loud.

+2

I don’t believe this issue (abortion) is the one that will destroy the election. Christians have always been outspoken about their opposition to abortion. Why is it such a big deal now?

This issue will not decide the election. People who feel strongly about this on either side are already decided on how they will vote. This incident changes nothing. It’s much ado about nothing.

This election is all about the western way of life (with a flawed Mitt Romney) vs. socialism and evil (Obama). The abortion issue is a red herring meant to distract from that.

Republican is a political party that aligns more often with conservatism. Democrat is a political party that more often aligns itself with liberalism.

Conservatism includes all sorts of people, including Christians. To throw Christians under the bus as the reason we will lose the election because of the Biblical stance on abortion is similar to Glenn Beck throwing the Tea Party under the bus with false accusations of racism.

Glenn made the argument for liberals based on a false narrative. I see that here. People who are for protecting the sanctity of human life, regardless of the level of that life, in society and culture are not to blame for the state this country is in.

The question boils down to this: Where do you get your morals, values and beliefs? Where do those things come from for you, individually? When you can answer that, you’ll know a lot about yourself.

Fur, you are asking people to give up what they believe to be a Biblical truth. I, for one, will never do that. Not even for political gain. I will vote for Mitt Romney over Obama because Romney best represents what I believe in as a Christian and an American. Obama is fathoms away from what America has been the past 200 years.

But to blame people who believe the act of abortion is wrong and immoral for “costing an election” is just so….not you.

If enough people in America cannot see what Obama is, how anti-American he is and how he intends to make us into a socialist nation, then we deserve our fate as a nation.

I will never change my Biblical view to accommodate a political one. I will vote for the lesser of two evils, to be sure. But I will never say abortion is okay just to get someone into office…..

+6

“I had a chance to not have to fund abortions, which was enough for this heretic.”

@BFH

You’re a good egg, Fur. On this particular subject, I may disagree with you, but it is in a spirit of friendly disagreement. No accusations of trolling or flame spewing from me here. I’ve been coming to IOTW a lot longer than I’ve been commenting here, and I understand what you’re saying. Not that I’m totally on board, but I understand. Peace!

+3

@LIR–

“Yep, Mary from Marin…I am defending the “slaughter of infants,” as you put it, on the altar of sexual freedom. …sigh…”

I am deeply grieved to hear that.

May God have mercy on your soul. And there is no sarcasm in that at all.

+3

Thanks, Mary. I understand, and even appreciate your prayer, philosophically. But, truly, it is not needed: Me and God be good friends. ….smile…

I want to win an election to save America. We can deal with the issue of unborn fetuses, later.

At the same time, we need more of “you folk” to volume down the rhetoric, back track a bit (lie a little, like a politician…?) and re-focus this thingie on the Constitution, the debt and the size of government. I can’t do it, alone. We all know where I stand…. smile….

We can arm wrestle over the baby issue, later. Help me, now.

I wish you well. ….Lady in Red

+1

@LIR–

The prayer was not made philosophically. It was made from the heart. I hope someday your heart can accept it, not just your mind.

+4

“Me and God be good friends. ….smile…”

I don’t mean to be a stickler for proper grammar etiquette….God and I …. would be the right order but your mistake is very telling.

+2

….the childlike, enthusiastic, unabashed embrace of God…, of the universe, of man and nature… the love and wonder of it all?

Was that what you found “telling,” Frosty?

Or, was it something cruel and sinister and parsed?

Not to explain: I understand. ….Lady in Red

0

Lady in Red and Moloch are tight, Frosteetoes. Didn’t you know that?

+2

Oh so Moloch is the god she’s so close to. Makes sense.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/moloch.html

+2

I WISH I could be a Christian like Ann Barnhardt She has clarity. I wish I had that clarity. You can’t manufacture it, you have to have been called upon.
And if I had to live in a theocracy, I’d choose the Christian theocracy.>>>>>

I’m no Ann Barnhardt either Fur….was a flippin liberal for 40 years, but I’m not going to let that stop me from pursuing God’s will for me nor should you. It’s obvious that you have a lot of knowledge on a lot of subjects (something I admire about you, Ann and many, many others here)…but the clarity you speak of is nothing more than faith….and faith as small as a mustard seed……

+3