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How Does One Continue To Write After Humiliating Themself This Badly?
Here’s a Dave Weigel piece that is tough to witness. It’s like a depantsing on a really, really cold winter day. What makes it even worse is that he does it to himself.
Could a Brave Citizen With a Concealed Weapon Have Prevented the Aurora Shootings?
GOHMERT: Before we ever had concealed carry in Texas, there was just a senseless shooting, years ago, in Kileen, Texas, in a restaurant. If we’d had concealed-carry permits at the time—there was a woman who had to leave her gun in her car. If we’d had concealed carry, the guy would have been stopped before he killed so many people. And I don’t know what the laws all are in Colorado, but we’ve found over and over again, when people are authorized to carry …
ISTOOK: Colorado does have concealed-carry permits.
GOHMERT: OK. It does make me wonder, with all those people in the theater, was there nobody that was carrying a gun that could have stopped this guy more quickly? I mean, in Tyler, Texas, my home town, we had a shooter come in over a domestic matter and just start shooting people. And it was a guy with a concealed carry—he got killed, but his shooting at this guy caused him to run and no doubt saved a lot of lives. He was hero.
It’ll be a while before we hear anything so knuckleheaded about the shootings. The fact that Colorado has these laws is evidence that they don’t stop all massacres. (UPDATE: Really important note—these theaters didn’t allow weapons inside.)
Ya, that’s a REALLY important update considering you just said we’d never read anything as knuckleheaded about the shootings. By my count we read something more knuckleheaded one sentence later.
But, like the good little journolister, he just forges ahead as if we won’t notice. But it’s hard not to notice when the rest is just as knuckleheaded.
What massacres can they stop? Well, in April—in Aurora—Kiarron Parker went on a shooting spree during a church service. He was stopped after an off-duty cop, Antonio Milow, pulled his concealed weapon and killed him. Gohmert recalls the 2005 incident in Tyler when Mark Allen Wilson saw a man, David Hernandez Arroyo, in a stand-off outside of a courthouse; Wilson disrupted the crime by shooting him.
Let’s compare.
Kiarron Parker. He entered an open space (the church) during daylight hours and moved around the building looking for victims. He was shot by an off-duty cop with training unavailable to the average bystander.
David Hernandez Arroyo. He wasn’t stopped until he was outside the courthouse—another open space in daylight. The hero heard the shooting while in another building, came over, and got the drop on Arroyo.
James Holmes. He wore a bulletproof vest, helmet, and gask mask, and entered a movie theater that was playing The Dark Knight Rises—so the room was dark and loud. He tossed a “gas canister” that went off and would have obscured the vision of anyone looking back at him. From the AP:
They saw a silhouette of a person in the haze near the screen, pointing a gun at the crowd and then shooting.
“There were bullet (casings) just falling on my head. They were burning my forehead,” Jennifer Seeger said, adding that the gunman, dressed like a SWAT team member, fired steadily, stopping only to reload.
“Every few seconds it was just: Boom, boom, boom,” she said. “He would reload and shoot and anyone who would try to leave would just get killed.”
You’ve got dark, panic, an enclosed space, and some kind of painful gas. No one’s in any position to get the jump on the shooter. No one has a place to hide from him—he has a perfect vantage point of every seat. And he’s wearing protective gear.
So, I think the answer for Gohmert is: No. No one was in an ideal position to pull a Dirty Harry on the man shooting at him/her in a panicked theater.
No? Really?
Well, I guess the way pimple puss puts it, that ONE guy in the theater of hundreds would have a gun, it might be improbable. But not if 20 law-abiding armed citizens were in the theater. I’ll put my money down on Holmes exiting the theater in a body bag.
What’s Weigel’s point anyway? That concealed carry is worthless? That can’t be the point because he just detailed two instances where concealed carry ended a crisis.
Is it his point that it’s worthless when there is a shooting at a movie theater filled with unarmed patrons? That’s a tad specific.
Weigel seems to be wading into the debate about hand gun control, but he’s only putting a big toe in, a big infected dumb toe.
Take for instance, this line – “He was shot by an off-duty cop with training unavailable to the average bystander.”
Huh? If a bystander has a concealed carry permit I would bet dollars to donuts that the person has done some shooting. But even if the person is Barney Fife, it’s better than nothing. Besides, why does Weigel assume all sorts of training and expertise for the assailant with a gun but not the “ordinary bystander”?
And, lastly, did Weigel consider for a second that the shooter chose that theater precisely because he knew that guns weren’t allowed and he’d have a helpless captive audience? Yes, he wore a bullet-proof vest, but that could have been a precaution for the eventual shootout with the police.
This article is a mess. It’s physically painful to read.
CrustyB
July 21st, 2012
Weigel’s nothing but a smug bastard who would never get a job if the journalism business in this country had any standards or ethics. He also has one of those eminently punchable faces.
TOWG
July 21st, 2012
My first reaction to the theater shooting was surprise that no one in the theater shot back.
Maudie N Mandeville
July 21st, 2012
“…fired steadily, stopping only to relo…” Blam, Blam, Blam! Holmes: dead. Weigel in the rest room changing his wet pants.
Lowell
July 21st, 2012
If you have a concealed carry license, and you take your carefully concealed weapon into one of these ‘private gun free’ zones, all they can do is ask you to leave the premises. You have NOT broken a law.
This does NOT apply at government facilities. They will arrest you.
Pubert
July 21st, 2012
“He was shot by an off-duty cop with training unavailable to the average bystander.”
Mercy.. Any honest cop will tell you that many
cops never even shoot their weapons unless they
have to qualify. Being a cop in itself is no
guaranty of firearms prowess. A few shoot a lot,
but many don’t.
Lady in Red
July 21st, 2012
The irony, of course, is that in all the “gun free zones,” like schools, it’s only the Bad Guy who has a gun.
The Good Guys play by the rules, making for lots of Human Groceries and Sitting Ducks for The Bad Guy.
I’ve thought, here and there, about such a situation… a gun in my purse. The Bad Guy looking for Possible Trouble from Some Big Lunk, or… and his eyes pass over me. Gives me time to calm and center, get a grip, stand and take a stance…. Make My Day. …smile. …Lady in Red
MAJ Mike
July 21st, 2012
If you have a CCL, carry your firearm. You can’t predict when or where some nut case will go off. On a percentage basis, there are not many of us. So goblins feel very safe in going on a rampage.
Additionally, that theater doesn’t allow anyone to carry a firearm on their property. Are they liable for the safety of their patrons when they remove the means of self-defense from those legally authorized to carry?
Lady in Red
July 21st, 2012
…just like the shooting range. But, even more fun. …smile… ….Lady in Red
Rightwingfeather
July 21st, 2012
So is that just another argument for the left to ban guns? That even if you had armed lawful citizens there they would be no match in this setting?
Does the author think that bullets just bounce off a bullet proof vest? Or that there is no other place a trained citizen could have placed a shot that would have incapacitated him? Or that in the lull of a reload no armed citizen could have fired a few rounds back and caused significant injury?
So they want us to be more helpless in these scenarios? That we should ban “assault” weapons and handguns with high capacity “clips?”
As tragic as this case is, I think it demonstrates that we need to have more armed, trained citizens.
So my answer to those that call for gun bans, yeah…lets be more like Mexico, where the citizens are realistically not allowed to have guns and there is a lengthy process to obtain even a .22 cal.
Yeah, only then would we be safe from gun violence…
cfm990
July 21st, 2012
“with training unavailable to the average bystander.”
That may be true. However, in this state, you must qualify at the range to receive a CWP.
.
“He wore a bulletproof vest, helmet, and gask mask,”
None of which makes you immune to return fire. Body armor may stop bullet penetration, but that’s it.
People who have been shot wearing body armor. Liken it to being hit with a sledge hammer. You may not die. But it’ll damn sure get your attention, and ruin the moment.
As for the gas mask? That may have impaired his vision. The heavy breathing associated with an adrenalin rush, fogs the lenses.
Lastly, just the fact that you are being fired upon, can change your outlook on life.
So yeah, return fire could have made a big difference.
Lowell
July 21st, 2012
From cfm990: “So yeah, return fire could have made a big difference.”
It’s called a ‘fighting chance’. Which the movie patrons were denied by the theater no weapons policy.
Anonymous
July 21st, 2012
TSA coming soon to a movie theater near you.
Chris Cassone
July 21st, 2012
I have a full carry NYS pistol permit (W/T…which means work and target). I suppose in NY they want to split hairs and say, a movie theater isn’t work. Hell, I carry my Smith and Wesson 38 Jack Ruby special everywhere. And I had to take a special course put on by the county sheriff’s office. So we are trained.
Run at the shooter and cut down his angle.
Roadmaster
July 21st, 2012
No one knows how they will react in such a situation except a combat veteran (I am). First is FEAR (I want my Mommy), followed immediately by loss of control; pissed/pooped pants in many cases or overwhelming urge to run away.
Next is ANGER, at the shame because 1) you called out loud for “Mommy,” 2) you ran away screaming like a little girl, or 3) the warm, nasty sensation spreading in your pants – anger which then can be focused on the threat. It is the basic fight or flight reflex of all sentient living things.
Those of us who carry have the means to take action in our own defense or the defense of others, while those who don’t are helpless victims, lambs for the slaughter. I chose to be in the former group, not the latter.
Whether or not an armed citizen could have abbreviated this rampage may be debatable to some, BUT odds are much better than even that any armed resistance to deadly force is a deterrent. Bastards like this become instant cowards when looking down the barrel of a .45, .357, 9MM, .38, .380 or (my favorite) double barreled 12 gauge.
Angrymike
July 21st, 2012
@Lady in red
Love that attitude, I wish more women thought that way……;-)
bitterclinger
July 21st, 2012
This could get good if the Hollyweirdos, already seeing their massive paydays shrink — know that TSA-type patdowns would further screw over their profit margins when the remaining movie goers say “screw it.”
Let’s see if the big box-office draws will put their leftist $$ where their collective mouths are and be hoisted on their own petards.
Boobie the Rocket Dog
July 21st, 2012
That was my first thought, too, unless it was in the neighborhood that consistently elects Patty Horsesass to the U S Senate.
Then, even though common sense would tell you to carry your permitted concealed weapon wherever you went (but KEEP it concealed) those people wouldn’t have done it anyway.
I have a Glock 30 but it’s really not concealable to Florida standards. Maybe I should get that “pocket pistol” the range owner recommended when I took the course. Titanium. 45. Perfect.
Dr. Tar
July 21st, 2012
12 dead 58 wounded.
Seems like some return fire might have done some good, even if the shooter wasn’t hit. It would of at least thrown the shooter off his stride and make him think about his own survival rather then focusing on lining up the next victim.
Weldor
July 21st, 2012
Bah, I ignore private prohibition on carry.
And while no one knows how they’ll react in a given situation, that’s why you train; so you -won’t- have to think.
I have a plan for just that situation; my wife goes prone unless there’s an opportune moment to evac and I begin to dispense .45 caliber ballistic therapy.
And I shoot better than most of the cops I shoot with.
Unneutral
July 21st, 2012
Smith and Wesson 50 cal. Magnum 8 in. barrel would have tipped him back on his heels. A little hard to conceal perhaps but…..
TOWG
July 21st, 2012
Unless it’s a government building, where I have to walk through a scanner, I always carry. Private signs don’t deter me at all.
whosebone
July 21st, 2012
I’m thinking a case could be made for a lawsuit against the theatre owners for causing a circumstance where people were needlessly put in a situation where it was impossible for them to defend themselves.
COCOJO
July 22nd, 2012
He was perfectly backlit against the screen, smoke bomb or not, in an arena with a balcony. If CC were allowed there would likely have been 12-20 shooters in the theatre – all aiming for his head. He would have left in a body bag. Down and done before the Cops arrived.