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Sheriff Arpaio: Obama birth certificate forged

Home - by - March 2, 2012 - 08:00 America/New_York - 169 Comments

Obama birth certificate forged, ‘perpetrators’ must be ‘brought to justice’

The DC

Maricopa County, Ariz. Sheriff Joe Arpaio poured gasoline on the cooling embers of the so-called “birther” movement Thursday afternoon with a jaw-dropping press conference in Phoenix. Speaking to the press, Arpaio said there was significant evidence that President Barack Obama’s birth certificate was a “computer-generated forgery.”

Last year Arpaio, widely known as a tough-on-crime elected official, appointed a five-member “cold case posse” to investigate a local tea party organization’s claim that the birth certificate was fraudulent.

See more HERE

 

» 169 Comments

  1. Immortal Fish

    March 2nd, 2012

    C’mon! It’s not like all his relatives are illegal aliens.

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +23

     
  2. xthred

    March 2nd, 2012

    Yes!

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +12

     
  3. SgtZim

    March 2nd, 2012

    I hope he can get some traction finally on this!

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +13

     
  4. Truthsayer

    March 2nd, 2012

    It does not take an “expert” to see the document is obviously a fake. What is alarming is everyone in government just continues to look the other way! Obama and Holder keep whining hat they are treated differently because of their ethnicity. Well, yes they ARE treated differently, their allowed to get away with blatant crimes!

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +39

     
  5. Brooke

    March 2nd, 2012

    Bravissimo, Fish!!!

    Thumb up +5

     
  6. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    When PhotoShop is outlawed, then only Leftists can PhotoShop.

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +25

     
  7. [...] TO COME – Sheriff Arpaio: Obama birth certificate forged. There was much interesting that Sheriff Joe’s Cold Case Posse revealed in yesterday’s [...]

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  8. kono

    March 2nd, 2012

    Huh

    “His” books? Fake
    His high IQ? Fake (teleprompter sorta shows this)
    His family pictures? Fake
    His Christian faith? Fake
    His social sercurity number? Fake
    His love for America? FAKE

    Ya, I’d say it’s pretty likely his BC is fake too.

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +33

     
  9. tucsondon

    March 2nd, 2012

    Love that Joe. Nutz the size of basketballs.

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +22

     
  10. muddjuice

    March 2nd, 2012

    Wow. We need the Sheriff’s of the country to band together like this. Along with Governors and State Attorney Generals……

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +18

     
  11. Noelegy

    March 2nd, 2012

    You know, it’s not that it was a fake that offended me. It’s that it’s not even a GOOD fake.

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +17

     
  12. Bloodless Coup

    March 2nd, 2012

    People Are Beggining To Wonder Was Breitbart Assassinated?

    See this article on the Gulag Bound Website

    IMMEDIATE QUESTIONS Arise on Breitbart Death, Chemically Induced Heart Attacks Possible

    This article includes a video tape that decribes a dart gun that was developed by the CIA which shoots poison darts which dissolve and can cause the target to have a heart attack without leaving any evidence behind.

    http://gulagbound.com/26793/immediate-questions-arise-on-breitbart-death-chemically-induced-heart-attacks-possible/

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  13. Nunya

    March 2nd, 2012

    Sarah & Sheriff Joe 2012!

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  14. Noah

    March 2nd, 2012

    @Nunya. +1000.

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  15. Bad Brad

    March 2nd, 2012

    @Bloodless, I’m not a big conspiracy guy, but this seems all to coincidental to me. If you read some of the stuff on Drudge right now you can’t help but wonder. We will never no though. I sure hope what ever he had still sees the light of day.

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  16. Starfighter

    March 2nd, 2012

    @Bloodless Coup — I have come to the conclusion that conspiracy theorists will never be happy with any evidence produced. If the tox screen on Breitbart comes back clean, they will scream, “It’s a cover-up! They’re lying!” If the tox screen shows alcohol or drugs, they’ll scream, “Those were added to mask the poison!”

    Yes, it’s too soon.

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  17. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    For those of you who still believe that Obama could have been born somewhere else than in Hawaii, a question for you:

    I’ll bet that you know (but, actually, you may have forgotten) that the US government requires, and has long required, that a child being carried into the USA must have some kind of official travel document to be admitted. This is usually a US passport for the child. Or, it could be the fact that the child is entered on the mother’s US passport. Or, it could be a US visa for the child on a foreign passport. Without one of those, we would not let the child into the country.

    So, IF Obama really had been born in Kenya (or in any country other than the USA), he would have had to have one of those documents–wouldn’t he? His family would have had to show the passport, wouldn’t they? To show the passport, they would have had to have applied for the passport or the visa for Obama. And, if Obama really were born in Kenya (or another country), they would have had to have applied for it in the US consulate or embassy there, wouldn’t they?

    Such applications are FILED by the US government. The documents exist in multiple files, the actual application itself, communication about it with Washington, entries in the passport file, entries in the application file, entries in the places where the child is carried into the USA. The Bush Administration was in charge of the State Department and the INS for eight years before Obama was elected. Don’t you think that they would have checked the claim that he was born outside the USA?

    All they had to do was find one of those files and McCain would win the election.

    Well, they never did. There is no such file.

    So the question is, do you think that the Bush Administration was part of the plot?

    Do you think that the files, the documents, the application for the documents, the communications about the documents were all lost or hidden? Remember, they are in multiple files, the file of the passport holder, the files of applications for passports, the files in the US embassy in foreign countries, the files in the State Department and in the INS (which would have checked in Obama at an entry point if he had actually traveled in 1961)–and yet no document has been found. Why not?

    The absence of the travel document, plus the Hawaii birth certificate, plus the confirmation of the facts on it by three Republican (and several Democrat) officials, plus the birth notices in the Hawaii newspapers in 1961, plus the witness who remembers being told of the birth and writing home about it (to her father, named Stanley, about the unusual event of a birth to a woman named Stanley). All this is evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii.

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  18. Billy Fuster

    March 2nd, 2012

    There are many who know Obama the imposter, Soros, and their leftist cronies made a defacto coupe of the U.S. government in 2008. It is obvious Republicans are doing nothing about it so they are either incredibly stupid (yes)or in league with the socialists (quite possibly). Question is–will conservatives, libertarians, tea party, etc. muster the balls to foment the needed strike/tax revolution to put an end to the tyranny? If not, keep capitulating and kiss freedom good-bye.

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  19. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Only the nuts believe that Obama was born outside of the USA.

    Re strike/tax revolution.

    Dream on. The last planned birther conference was cancelled for lack of interest. The one before that drew a few hundred people.

    Such conservative commentators as Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly all call birthers nuts, and not one Republican candidate for president supports their position. The McCain campaign (and probably the Hillary campaign as well) investigated the birther allegations back during the election–and found that there was nothing to them.

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  20. kono

    March 2nd, 2012

    Then riddle me this Ellen….Just why EXACTLY did it take him, what 3/4 years to produce it? So maybe where he was born is not what he’s hiding….maybe it’s who his daddy is…idk. The point is NO REPUBLICAN could get away without producing it BEFORE the election. And if I’m not mistaken, isn’t travel documents/passport information “missing” from mamma’s “file”? I believe it is, why yes, here are a couple of links:http://james4america.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/obamas-mothers-passport-records-prior-to-1965-are-missing/ or here: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/obamas_birth_certifcate_forgery/

    And also, why the secrecy about virtually everything about him? His grades? His passport? How he paid for school? Why aren’t there any girlfriends from the past? college schoolmates? AND the things we do know about him aren’t really that impressive. Former drug user, went to a “church” which spews America hating “sermons”, his “first” try at writing his book fell apart, he CANNOT speak publically (even to 5th graders) without the ever loving teleprompters. Do you see a pattern here….so you see, where he was born is just the beginning.

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  21. muddjuice

    March 2nd, 2012

    Ellen. Truth can be an ugly thing. Sometimes we don’t want to admit that we were duped.

    I’m not sure if I believe that he wasn’t born in Hawaii, this may all be a diversion to shift the focus away from his “fundamentally transforming America” into a socialist country much like our European neighbors across the ocean…..

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +11

     
  22. Tennessee Vol

    March 2nd, 2012

    Ellen . . . Obama has paid upwards of $3,000,000.00 (that’s three MILLION dollars) to attorneys to keep all of his records under lock and key. Even the most complacent, ignorant, and brain-washed Obama worshipper would agree that the man is hiding something.

    I’ll make it simple: Obama is a liar, fake, usurper, fraud, con, cheat, and more. Don’t insult my intelligence by telling me otherwise.

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +23

     
  23. kono

    March 2nd, 2012

    Righty-o mudd. When the lies, half-truths, omissions, diversions, cover-ups combine with hidden documents, late-released documents, missing documents…it makes a thinking person ask the questions.

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  24. kono

    March 2nd, 2012

    Of course Ellen, we know you won’t come back and address these concerns…and we know you’re reading them.

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  25. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    ellen is good at refuting WHERE Hussein may, or may not, have been born. I will quote the great Patriot Warrior, Andrew Breitbart, and counter with, “So?”

    AT BEST, Hussein had DUAL citizenship at birth due to his Father’s Kenyan/British citizenship. AT WORST, he was a Kenyan/British citizen – TOTALLY!

    Who gives a crap WHERE he was born? Although, you cannot argue with the Occum’s Razor arguments from Kono, Muddjuice, and Billy Fuster.

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  26. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    And I forgot to mention Tennessee Vol’s post – which is so damned true it makes Leftist’s heads explode.

    Noteworthy Comment Thumb up +11

     
  27. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Of course Ellen, we know you won’t come back and address these concerns…and we know you’re reading them.

    Actually, I will return and answer everything.

    Re dual citizen. There is nothing in the US Constitution that prevents dual citizens from being president and we have had at least three. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were dual citizens when they were president because they had been made citizens of France by the French National Assembly. Woodrow Wilson was a dual citizen at birth because his mother NEVER GAVE UP BRITISH CITIZENSHIP. Yes, she became a US citizen due to a law that made women who married US men US citizens, but she was never naturalized (she did not swear an oath or renounce citizenship in a foreign country) and because she did not renounce foreign citizenship, Woodrow was a dual citizen at birth.

    The fact that neither dual citizenship nor the citizenship of a parent affects Natural Born status is the reason that not one, not one, member of the Electoral College changed a vote, despite an effort by birthers and two fers to have them change, and it is why the US Congress confirmed Obama’s election UNANIMOUSLY, despite an effort by birthers and two-fers to get some of them to vote against.

    I will continue this in a minute.

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  28. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Then riddle me this Ellen….Just why EXACTLY did it take him, what 3/4 years to produce it? ”

    Obama produced–showed BOTH an image and the physical copy–of his short form birth certificate from Hawaii in 2008. And that was the right one to show because it is now the official birth certificate of Hawaii, the one that thousands of people in Hawaii use every year to get their US passports, and three Republican officials in Hawaii (and several Democrats) have confirmed the facts on it.

    Re: “maybe where he was born is not what he’s hiding….maybe it’s who his daddy is…”

    The name of his father on his long-form birth certificate is exactly the same as on the short-form birth certificate and exactly the same as in Obama’s book, Obama Senior.

    The claims that other men look like Obama are fantasies. Did you notice how much Mitt Romney looks like Harpo Marx?

    Re: “The point is NO REPUBLICAN could get away without producing it BEFORE the election. ”

    You are kidding, or very uninformed. McCain did not publish his birth certificate. The one that is online is not his, and neither the press nor birthers said anything about it. NONE of the Republican candidates for president (and none of the former candidates either) has published a birth certificate, and neither the press nor the birthers have said anything about it.

    I will continue in a minute.

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  29. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “And if I’m not mistaken, isn’t travel documents/passport information “missing” from mamma’s “file”?

    Actually no. Only applications for travel documents were missing, and they are missing from millions of files due to an effort to reduce the size of the files back in the 1970s. The Freedom of Information Act request simply did not ask to see either Obama’s mother’s first passport, or the record of it, or the record of the date that it was issued. The birther did not ask. Why did he not ask???

    If Obama’s mother or Obama himself had traveled outside of the USA in 1961, it would have been recorded in dozens of files. If he were born in a foreign country, there would have had to have been an application to add him to his mother’s passport IN THAT COUNTRY, and the record of the application would have been kept. IF he traveled from a foreign country to the USA, there would be an INS record of his admission. There are no such records, but there are birth certificate records showing that he was born in Hawaii.

    I will continue in a minute

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  30. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    Woodrow Wilson???

    Jeez, give it up, lady!

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  31. Jose

    March 2nd, 2012

    “IF he traveled from a foreign country to the USA, there would be an INS record of his admission”

    Just like how illegal aliens have proper INS records, right? lol

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  32. kono

    March 2nd, 2012

    There also seems to have been some confusion on just what hospital he was born…conflicting “stories”.

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  33. Jose

    March 2nd, 2012

    Senor McCain’s father was military. Every dependents records (birth and medical) can be found in control of the Pentagon. The government has his records on file from age 0 and we can pinpoint where he’s been at anytime and anywhere. Your homeskillet in chief, not so much.

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  34. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “And also, why the secrecy about virtually everything about him? His grades? His passport.”

    Answer. Have you seen the grades of any of the Republican candidates for president, or their passports, or their birth certificates????

    How about the grades of Bill Clinton (Bush’s was leaked by Yale, but HE didn’t release it, or his passport, or his birth certificate).

    Re: “Why aren’t there any girlfriends from the past? ”

    Answer: How about old girlfriends for Romney, Paul or Santorum?

    Re: “college schoolmates? ”

    http://www.wikicu.com/Phil_Boerner

    http://www.college.columbia.edu/cct/jan_feb09/alumni_corner

    http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/recollections-of-obamas-ex-roommate/

    Re: “he CANNOT speak publically (even to 5th graders) without the ever loving teleprompters.”

    If so, it does not make him born in a foreign country, nor does it make him not a Natural Born Citizen. All it means is that you do not like the way that you think he would speak without a teleprompter. That certainly is good grounds for voting against him, but as I said, it does not mean that he was born outside of the country or that he is not a Natural Born Citizen.

    Re: “I’m not sure if I believe that he wasn’t born in Hawaii, this may all be a diversion to shift the focus away from his “fundamentally transforming America” into a socialist country much like our European neighbors across the ocean…..”

    Answer: Do you mean that Obama is trying to give the impression that he was not born in Hawaii? If so, how is he doing it?

    It was the birthers, and the birthers only, who made up the lie that his grandmother said that he was born in Kenya. (She said repeatedly in the taped interview that he was born in Hawaii, and she said in another interview that the first that her family had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter from Hawaii.

    Re: “Tennessee Vol”

    Answer: Sorry, don’t know about him or it. Please cite the site.

    Re: “Ellen . . . Obama has paid upwards of $3,000,000.00 (that’s three MILLION dollars) to attorneys to keep all of his records under lock and key…”

    Answer. Another piece of birther crap. Obama has not spent anything, and–get this–he does not have to release his college transcripts, kindergarten records, passports or anything else that the birthers are asking for. There is no law that says that he must, and the Republican candidates have not done so either. They have not even released their birth certificates, while Obama HAS–both his short form and his long form.

    Re: “I’ll make it simple: Obama is a liar, fake, usurper, fraud, con, cheat, and more…”

    All of which are good reasons to vote against him, and none of which prove that he was born outside the USA or is not a Natural Born Citizen.

    Re: “lies, half-truths, omissions, diversions, cover-ups combine with hidden documents, late-released documents, missing documents…it makes a thinking person ask the questions.”

    What “hidden documents.” Obama has released his short-form and long-form birth certificates, and three Republican (and several Democrat) officials in Hawaii have confirmed the facts on them. He has not released his school records, but then neither has any of the Republican candidates.

    Re: “Of course Ellen, we know you won’t come back and address these concerns…”

    Answer: I have come back, and I have answered everything.

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  35. Bad Brad

    March 2nd, 2012

    Ellen, At this point in time I don’t care if he was born I hell and was the spawn of the devil, (he might be) He sucks, he is well on his way to turning this country into a third rate European Socialist country and he needs to leave. (please don’t say it’s Bush’s fault, that excuse has expired along time ago)

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  36. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Woodrow Wilson???

    Jeez, give it up, lady!
    Thumb up +1″

    Answer: Yes Woodrow Wilson, and Jefferson and Madison were dual citizens when they were president.

    Re: “Just like how illegal aliens have proper INS records, right?”

    Answer. Illegal aliens generally enter from Mexico or Canada. Hawaii does not have a border with either of them.

    Re: “There also seems to have been some confusion on just what hospital he was born…..”

    Answer: No, only your confusion. Obama said he was born in Kapiolani. His sister said that he was born at Kapiolani (she was misquoted by UPI once, but that did not change the fact that she had said Kapiolani). His birth certificate says Kapiolani. The former governor of Hawaii (a Republican) said Kapiolani. The current governor of Hawaii said Kapiolani. He sent a letter on the 100th anniversary of Kapiolani saying that he was born there, and THEY PRINTED IT.

    (Oh, and yes Kapiolani Hospital did exist in 1961. That is where the Nordyke twins were born too.)

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  37. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “He sucks, he is well on his way to turning this country into a third rate European Socialist country.”

    So vote against him. That is your right. We were discussing whether or not he was born in the USA (he was, in Hawaii) and whether or not he is a Natural Born Citizen. He is because the meaning of Natural Born comes from the common law and refers to the place of birth.

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  38. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Senor McCain’s father was military. Every dependents records (birth and medical) can be found in control of the Pentagon.”

    Does that mean that he should not have shown his birth certificate? He could do that in addition to all the other records, which you claim exists.

    I’m not saying that McCain was not born where he said that he was born. I’m saying that he did not show it, and for that matter Bush did not show that he was born in Connecticut or Clinton in Arkansas. No current Republican candidate has shown his birth certificate.

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  39. Bad Brad

    March 2nd, 2012

    Ellen. And my point is at this stage of the game it really doesn’t matter. The damage has been done.

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  40. Nutjob

    March 2nd, 2012

    Dear Ellen

    His long form BC has not been released.
    Even recently some dumbshit democrat running
    for governor in Hawaii claimed when he is elected governor he will release it once and for all to finally shut up the birthers, being he has the the authority as governor.
    I thought cool, finally some resolve and this whole thing is silly anyway.

    Well he was elected and immediately responded with, he respected the presidents right to privacy.

    The one that was released had on it African-american under race, when its well known NO ONE said african american on BCs in 1963 it was Negro or colored.
    It was quickly pulled and said we knew that and it was joke directed at republicans…WTF?

    George Bushs grades and transcripts were released, demoncrats had a heyday mockoing our C- president.

    When it was showed that Barack applied for foreign aid, suddenly all of his grades and transcripts were sealed.
    Which means there are only 3 outcomes for mr I want to be the most transparent liar….I mean president ever.
    Either he is dumber then Bush, which the democrats are still in denial about, he tried scamming the college for money under a student loan which is fraud and a felony, or he is a foreigner.

    Then he mocks those who don’t believe him,….like this is all a joke and has his Goebbels says shit like we released the fake ones to basically fuck with the birthers…….and who is playing games again?

    Thumb up +8

     
  41. Jose

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Just like how illegal aliens have proper INS records, right?”

    Answer. Illegal aliens generally enter from Mexico or Canada. Hawaii does not have a border with either of them.

    Ellen.
    You do realize you can enter the US as an illegal from ANY country. Not just Mexico or Canada, right? People are here illegally from all over the world. Some just don’t get caught.

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  42. Jose

    March 2nd, 2012

    I mean, you can get here by boat through any state that has a coastline.

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  43. The Kuchar Team

    March 2nd, 2012

    It honestly wouldn’t surprise me in the least but honestly? It’s kind of the least of my worries. What’s important to me is that I vote this November and do what I can do change the president.

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  44. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    Well, well, well. SOMEONE is earning their Obama For America stipend today! AttackWatch at it’s worst, if you ask me. Baseless, out of date, and totally erroneous “arguments” only cut it on Media Mutters, Kos, HuffPoo, and other Soros/Hussein related and bankrolled sites.

    ellen – like we care what tripe and Leftist garbage you have to offer. You’re wasting YOUR time, certainly not ours. We LOVE to tweak the noses of Leftist trolls. So, as W once said, “Bring it on!”

    Want some lotion for your typing hands? More Hot Pockets? We can contact your Mom (or, in the case of some of the trolls here, your Dean) to make sure that you’re fully supplied!

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  45. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    And, BTW. “ellen’s” writing style is eerily familiar, wouldn’t you say?

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  46. Jose

    March 2nd, 2012

    So according to Ellen, no modern president has shown his BC so obama really has no reason to show his (real or fake) even though he has a shady background.

    “Does that mean that he should not have shown his birth certificate? He could do that in addition to all the other records, which you claim exists.”

    Andale! Wow. McCain’s, Bush, and Clinton, Reagan, etc. All their lives are public record.
    Ask around.

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  47. muddjuice

    March 2nd, 2012

    What’s with the “duel citizenship” thing? His father was not a duel citizen. He was not a citizen of the US at all. Isn’t the constitution clear on that?

    Otherwise, Chavez could come here to America and get a US citizen pregnant and then have that child become president some day. Think there would be a conflict of interest there?…..

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  48. Jose

    March 2nd, 2012

    The Doktor, correct!
    Ellen’s style is called “Copy Paste from lefty blog”.

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  49. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Woodrow Wilson???

    Jeez, give it up, lady!
    Thumb up +1″

    Answer: Yes Woodrow Wilson, and Jefferson and Madison were dual citizens when they were president.
    Thumb up 0

    Well, thanks for CONFIRMING the fact that Hussein DOES NOT MEET the requirement of Natural Born Citizen. But, of course, we all KNEW that already.

    BTW – You REALLY are an idiot. Madison and Jefferson were “grandfathered” in as eligible as per the CONSTITUTION. Woodrow Wilson was another generation’s problem. HUSSEIN is ours. Get into the 21st century, numbnut.

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  50. Wraith

    March 2nd, 2012

    At this point, where he was born is irrelevant.

    At this point, the citizenship of either of his parents is irrelevant.

    At this point, Obummer’s eligibility to be POTUS is irrelevant.

    Barack Hussein Obama Jr. has blatantly disregarded the Constitution and the rule of law. He has given aid and comfort to enemies of the United States. He has proven himself a traitor to the Republic, and should be arrested and tried as such, ASAFP.

    All else is simply missing the point, or–as the late Mr. Breitbart would say–”So?”

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  51. Nutjob

    March 2nd, 2012

    It should be called WATCHUSATTACK, not Attack Watch.

    Never has any other president called for 2 million people to systematically deny, protect or attack his enemies since….welll Joeseph Goebbels.

    Now the teaparty is being audited but yet acorn isn;t?
    Isn’t that called an abuse of power? and eeeringly similar to what Hitler did?

    Turned down the pipeline then blame republicans? Jim Jones would’ve loved to had these 2 million people in his congregation.

    I’ll bet Ellens ISP address comes from a university if I was a betting man.

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  52. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Ellen. And my point is at this stage of the game it really doesn’t matter. The damage has been done.”

    The damage was done when birthers LIED and said that Obama’s Kenyan grandmother said that Obama was born in Kenya, when she actually said that he was born in Hawaii (and in another interview said that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter from Hawaii).

    Re: “I mean, you can get here by boat through any state that has a coastline.”

    It is possible, but it is rare. So, let’s examine the possibilities. Why go abroad at the time of pregnancy if you feel that you have to smuggle the child back into the country and not enter through the INS process? You would only do that if you had lots of money to travel (Obama’s parents didn’t), and it was an easy trip (Kenya certainly wasn’t, nor any other country from Hawaii) and you were sure you could get back before the birth.

    Well, how likely was it that they actually decided to go abroad, and they suddenly realized that they would have to smuggle the child back into the USA in order to make him a Natural Born US citizen?

    And what are the odds that they got away with it? They got the child on a ship to Hawaii. No one noticed him on the ship. Then they got him off the ship and onto the land, and they got him registered as having been born in Hawaii, and the officials believed it.

    The combination of no travel document, and no INS check in, and the birth certificate from Hawaii, makes the chance of a birth outside of Hawaii virtually nil.

    Re: “McCain’s, Bush, and Clinton, Reagan, etc. All their lives are public record.”

    Answer: Actually, none of the birth certificates for the men you mentioned has ever been published, and none of their college records has been published either.

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  53. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    @muddjuice – Hussein’s father was Kenyan. Kenyans, at the time, were British citizens. No, he was not dual citizen but he was a Kenyan born with British citizenship. Perhaps there is where the misunderstanding lies.

    Hussein (Barry Soetoro, aka Social Security Fraud) has, at the very least, DUAL citizenship. That means that he is NOT a Natural Born Citizen (Father was a foreign national), and ineligible to be President. THAT’S the “dual citizenship thing”.

    Hope that helps!

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  54. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Barack Hussein Obama Jr. has blatantly disregarded the Constitution and the rule of law. He has given aid and comfort to enemies of the United States. He has proven himself a traitor to the Republic, and should be arrested and tried as such, ASAFP.”

    Answer: Sure sure. Dream on. There is no investigation of Obama’s “treason” underway in Congress. And there won’t be. But you do have the right to vote against him.

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  55. Jose

    March 2nd, 2012

    Sad she doesn’t know that a child (McCain) belonging to US citizens born on American territory (military bases for example) are US citizens.
    Records are held in Virginia, I believe.

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  56. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Hussein’s father was Kenyan. ”

    Yes. There is no doubt about it. Obama wrote about it in his book.

    The citizenship of a father, or of a mother, or of BOTH, has no effect on Natural Born citizen status. The meaning of Natural Born Citizen comes from the common law, and it refers to the PLACE of birth.

    “Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity.”—William Rawle, A VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. 2d ed. (1829)

    “Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are “natural born citizens” and eligible to be President…”—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]

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  57. Jose

    March 2nd, 2012

    “Answer: Actually, none of the birth certificates for the men you mentioned has ever been published, and none of their college records has been published either.”

    yes, that’s why lefties have been calling GW a “C” student. Because no one saw anything. lol

    You get paid by the sentence or what?

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  58. Wraith

    March 2nd, 2012

    Answer: Sure sure. Dream on. There is no investigation of Obama’s “treason” underway in Congress. And there won’t be. But you do have the right to vote against him.

    The Communist Party never investigated Lenin or Stalin, either. And that meant as much as your post does…absolutely nothing.

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  59. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Sad she doesn’t know that a child (McCain) belonging to US citizens born on American territory (military bases for example) are US citizens.”

    I agree that McCain was born on a US military base. I have said, and I repeat, that he did not show it to the US voters. He did not publish his birth certificate. He did not have too. There is no law that says that he has to. He didn’t, Bush didn’t, Clinton didn’t. But Obama DID, twice, and the facts on it were confirmed by the Republican officials in Hawaii.

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  60. muddjuice

    March 2nd, 2012

    @ The Doktor

    So….what you’re saying is, it doesn’t matter if he was born in Hawaii because his father was not a US citizen, right?

    Why is Ellen making the focus where he was born then? If his father was not a US citizen, it doesn’t matter if he was born in the White House, he can’t be president….

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  61. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “yes, that’s why lefties have been calling GW a “C” student. Because no one saw anything. lol”

    Ah. I made a mistake. Bush’s school transcript was published. None of the others were, and he did not publish his birth certificate. Moreover, while Bush’s transcript was published, BUSH did not do the publishing.

    This is only to make the point that it is not required, and in fact is not customary, for presidents or presidential candidates to publish their transcripts (some have published grade point averages) or their birth certificates.

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  62. Bad Brad

    March 2nd, 2012

    And to make matters worse, the guys got the most feminine hands I have ever seen on a dude. Go back up and look at the picture. No American male born, and bred has hands like that. Now if that’s not proof for yah, I don’t know what to say.

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  63. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Why is Ellen making the focus where he was born then? If his father was not a US citizen, it doesn’t matter if he was born in the White House, he can’t be president….”

    Because that statement is incorrect. The place of birth does matter. It is the parents that do not matter. The meaning of Natural Born comes from the common law and refers to the PLACE of birth.

    “Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are “natural born citizens” and eligible to be President….”—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]

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  64. Jose

    March 2nd, 2012

    The doktor, Don’t forget no agent in history regarding INS has ever been bribed or looked the other way or ever bothered to half ass their job.

    Like people say, no matter where he was born
    he doesn’t behave like he has THIS country’s interests at heart. A foreigner from a foreign land with foreign interests. He’ll be voted out. No doubt.

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  65. Wraith

    March 2nd, 2012

    But Obama DID, twice, and the facts on it were confirmed by the Republican officials in Hawaii.

    No he didn’t, and no they weren’t. Lie all you want, it’s not going to change reality.

    You don’t even have to know anything about Photoshop to know that this BC is BS. Seriously, if this is all you’ve got, you’d better have Mr. Soros give you some more pointers. :D

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  66. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    Let’s see if I can pull off that “cut and paste” trick of AttackWatch –

    In Emmerich de Vattel’s legal treatise The Law of Nations, Chapter XIX, Section 212, natural born citizen was defined as follows:

    The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.[iii] (Emphasis added)

    In accordance with this one paragraph from The Law of Nations, it can be concluded that John McCain and Barack Obama have a valid and significant issue when it comes to their natural born citizen status. John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Barack Obama’s father was not a citizen of the United States at the time of his birth, and through citizenship inheritance, Barack Obama was also a British citizen at birth. According to de Vattel’s definition of natural born citizen neither man would therefore qualify as one. According to de Vattel, in McCain’s case the United States would not be “the place of his birth” and in Obama’s case, the United States would “be only the place of his birth, and not his country.”

    On the other hand, we have common law. Common law in its broadest definition as dictionary.com defines it is: “the unwritten law, esp. of England, based on custom or court decision, as distinct from statute law.”[iv] In common law, if no precedent setting case has decided a matter than the case before the court is referred to as a case of “first impression.” At the time of our Constitution, the law of England or British common law, stated in part: “and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject”[v] with exceptions that are not relevant to our discussion here. Within this definition if United States citizenship were substituted for British subject, one might conclude that the common law definition makes Barack Obama a natural born citizen while still excluding John McCain from natural born citizenship. What we have discovered through de Vattel’s definition of natural born citizen and the English common law understanding of natural born subject is that there is some importance attributed to both place of birth and the citizenship of the parents which brings us to the Latin terms of these conditions.

    The discussion on natural born citizens and/or subjects wrestles with the Latin terms jus soli meaning right of soil and jus sanguinis meaning right of blood. These terms were well known in the late 18th century when our Constitution was being drafted. Following these terms, we see that Barack Obama is said to be a citizen of the United States via jus soli while John McCain is a jus sanguinis United States citizen. Neither Mr. Obama nor Mr. McCain seems (to be discussed and qualified later) to possess both jus soli and jus sanguinis in their citizenship qualifications. According to Emmerich de Vattel, both jus soli and jus sanguinis were required to be a natural born citizen. According to British common law, jus soli satisfies the requirement for a natural born subject. Which concept were our founding fathers following? What can we glean if anything from the provision they placed in Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution?

    We know that they didn’t consider themselves natural born citizens, otherwise, they would not have included in the provision “or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution”[vi] (otherwise known as grandfathering themselves in) which allowed the signors and their fellow citizens to be eligible provided adherence to the subsequent conditions to hold the office of the Presidency. Unfortunately, the “grandfather clause” probably cannot shed definitive light on the subject. Based on jus soli, the nation in which they were born was a British Colony and subject to the King of England, so even though they were born on land that later became the United States, at the time of their birth that was not the condition. This leads us to the first indication that a person’s birth status cannot be changed via an act of rebellion, law or legislation. In other words, the circumstances of one’s status at birth becomes immutable. This certainly helps us to understand the “grandfather clause,” but it does not appear to provide us with a definitive answer as to who among us are natural born citizens. We still need further inquiry to determine what it means to be a natural born citizen. Now that we have opened the line of inquiry as to legislation with respect to natural born citizen, let’s move forward to acts of legislation on citizenship and the significant citizenship cases that followed within our courts.

    ——————–

    Gee! That was as simple as a Leftist troll!!

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  67. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    And the part that preceded that missive:

    Background information on the natural born citizen provision

    The United States Constitution has a provision in it as to whom is eligible to be President of the United States. Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 states that:

    No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.[i]

    As the Senators noted in their resolution on John McCain’s eligibility, the words natural born citizen were never defined in the Constitution, and, therefore, we are left to interpret what was meant by natural born citizen. It is widely held that the inclusion of this clause in our Constitution was the result of a letter sent on July 25, 1787 by John Jay to George Washington. It should be noted that John Jay later became the 1st Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court. The Honorable John Jay’s letter in part stated:

    Permit me to hint, whether it would not be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government and to declare expressly that the Command in Chief of the American army shall not be given to, nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen…[ii]

    Why didn’t the founders define natural born citizen? They seemed to think enough of John Jay’s letter to include it in the Constitution, yet they also seemed to feel no desire to further enunciate or debate the term in their constitutional convention or in the federalist papers written to persuade passage of the Constitution. Their actions seem to indicate that the term was very clear in their minds, that the meaning of the term natural born citizen was clear and that the meaning provided a “strong check” preventing “foreigners” from being elevated to the United States Presidency.

    What evidence or customary understanding of the term natural born citizen would the founding fathers have been using during their drafting and deliberations of the United States Constitution? At the time the Constitution was written, there were at least two legal theories that would have been invaluable to them: 1) Emmerich de Vattel’s legal treatise entitled The Law of Nations and 2) the practice of common law adopted in the several states.

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  68. Jose

    March 2nd, 2012

    Yes, so if Bush’s school records were outed, why aren’t Obama’s? We know a lot about the previous presidents’ public lives, like I said before. They were looked at before their presidency and so were other candidates in general. Whether they released them or were outed by someone else.
    So many people are curious as to where Obama’s records are? Any records. When do his get outed?

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  69. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “His long form BC has not been released.”

    Answer: Not only has it been released, but it was passed around in the White House Press Room.

    Here is the photographic image of the physical copy of the long-form birth certificate that was passed around in the White House Press room, and the statement of the reporter who photographed it and her statement that she had felt the raised seal:

    http://lockerz.com/s/96540721

    Re: “Even recently some dumbshit democrat running
    for governor in Hawaii claimed when he is elected governor he will release it once and for all to finally shut up the birthers, being he has the the authority as governor.”

    No he did not say that. He said he was looking for ADDITIONAL evidence, beyond the birth certificate, something that would further confirm the facts on the birth certificate. But he never said that he could not find the long-form birth certificate, and in fact we have three officials (two Republican one Democrat) who stated that they saw it in the files, and the latter said that she saw it in the process of being copied onto security paper and that was what was given to Obama’s lawyer.

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  70. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Permit me to hint, whether it would not be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government and to declare expressly that the Command in Chief of the American army shall not be given to, nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen…[ii]”

    John Jay, a lawyer and justice (and the future first Chief Justice of the USA) was referring to the common law definition of Natural Born. There is not a shred of evidence that he was using anything else, and–guess what–none of the other American leaders at the time ever used the term Natural Born to refer to parents, only to the place of birth.

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  71. muddjuice

    March 2nd, 2012

    Ahhhh. So that’s why you’re so adamant about it. So tell me this Ellen, what about Obama is good? What has he done for America? What policies of his do you love?

    Is it the bowing to Islam kings? Is it socialized medicine? Is it refusing to answer a summons to court? Is it filing lawsuits against Arizona for enforcing the law? Is it calling cops stupid for doing their job? Is it the countless hours of vacation and golf? Is it the lack of support for Israel? Is it the high unemployment numbers? Is it the high gas prices? Is it the fact that race relations have gotten worse since he was elected?

    You keep saying that the president has the right not to show these documents. I disagree. He is the most powerful man in the free world. He was elected by the people, who are his boss. We have the right to demand that he prove he was born in America…..

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  72. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Yes, so if Bush’s school records were outed, why aren’t Obama’s”

    Because there was a person who hated Bush at Yale, hated him enough to break the school privacy regulations. But apparently there isn’t one who hates Obama enough at Occidental, Columbia or Harvard to do the same. And so far no one has done that for the Republican candidates for President.

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  73. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    @muddjuice – re: If his father was not a US citizen, it doesn’t matter if he was born in the White House, he can’t be president….

    That’s EXACTLY my point. The Left (in this case the Obama For America AttackWatch goons) are furiously attempting to REDIRECT the argument to something that, to this point in time, CANNOT be proven – Place of Birth. But, what they have to do is to obfuscate this “Natural Born Citizen” issue, which is very plain. And, to anyone who thinks that the NBC issue is moot, I say, “Then what OTHER broken Constitutional laws do we disregard?”

    The answer – None. We regard them ALL.

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  74. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Ahhhh. So that’s why you’re so adamant about it. So tell me this Ellen, what about Obama is good? What has he done for America? What policies of his do you love?”

    I did not like Bush, but he was born in the USA adn was legally elected.

    The question of whether I like Obama or not has absolutely nothing to do with these two facts: (1) he was born in Hawaii; (2) He, like all other US citizens who were born in the USA–and not naturalized–is a Natural Born US Citizen.

    Whether I will vote for Obama or for his opponent remains to be seen. I will decide on whether or not I consider the policies of that person to be better than the others.

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  75. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “The Left (in this case the Obama For America AttackWatch goons) are furiously attempting to REDIRECT the argument to something that, to this point in time, CANNOT be proven – Place of Birth. ”

    The left is trying to do two things, one show that Obama was born in Hawaii (which I have done) and also show that the meaning of Natural Born comes from the common law and refers to the PLACE of birth, which I also have done.

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  76. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    re: ellen’s Re: “His long form BC has not been released.”

    Answer: Not only has it been released, but it was passed around in the White House Press Room.

    I simply cannot type the words -

    Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !

    enough times to answer THAT particular “argument”.

    I did not know that “Obama For America AttackWatch” was hiring comedians. Now I know.

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  77. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    ellen – You have done NEITHER and you have no clue as to the largess of your FAIL!

    You ARE a comedian!

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  78. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “You keep saying that the president has the right not to show these documents. I disagree. He is the most powerful man in the free world. He was elected by the people, who are his boss. We have the right to demand that he prove he was born in America…..”

    You can demand all you want. But there is no law that says that he has to show the records. Besides, the few who are asking to see his records are not his boss. His bosses are all 300 million of us.

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  79. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    Now the U.S. Constitution is “no law”.

    If I am “his boss”, then I DEMAND to see, in MY HAND, documents of his birth, history, school records, and any others that I may deem necessary or an occasional basis.

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  80. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “If I am “his boss”,

    You aren’t. All 300 million are. Some of us want to see it, others don’t. He does not have to fulfill the demands of one person.

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  81. muddjuice

    March 2nd, 2012

    How about a court order Ellen?

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  82. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re:

    “I simply cannot type the words -

    Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !”

    You are in fact not answering. You are not citing any facts. I did, and I referenced the journalist who stated it. In addition to here statement, there is a letter from the DOH of Hawaii that states that she saw the long-form birth certificate being copied onto security paper, and that that is what was sent to Obama via his lawyer.

    Those are the facts.

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  83. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    How about the demands of a few million “persons”? When the the rule of law kick in? What’s the cutoff point? And, just who, exactly, SETS that point?

    Let me guess.

    No, ellen, you, and your VAST Soros-funded resources, have failed – AGAIN. You are fairly passionate but you truly do NOT persuade. Send in the higher-paid guns. You’re done.

    NEXT!

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  84. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    FACTS? A bogus POS BC passed around IN THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS ROOM (now THERE’S a non-biased and technical “Document Specialist” crowd) is a FACT???

    In what Unicorn Universe? Rhetorical – don’t bother to answer with yet MORE of your INDISPUTABLE FACTS!

    Sheesh! But you ARE an idiot!! Quit proving it!

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  85. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “How about a court order Ellen?”

    How about explaining that question?

    Federal officials do not have to submit to state court orders. And there has not been one for his school transcripts, nor has there been a federal court order.

    IF there were a federal court order (which is unlikely because a judge would have to rule that a transcript would have to be provided despite the fact that there is no law that says that a president or a presidential candidate has to do it), then Obama would have the right to appeal.

    Only if they Supreme Court said that he had to provide it ich is unlikely because the Supreme Court would have to rule that a transcript would have to be provided despite the fact that there is no law that says that a president or a presidential candidate has to do it), would Obama have to supply the transcript.

    Of course, if in the election Obama’s rival were to show his transcript, and Obama did not show his transcript, then Obama would feel that he would have to show it. But that would still be voluntary on his part, and voluntary on the part of the Republican too, of course.

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  86. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    That should read (which is unlikely because the Supreme Court would have to rule that a transcript would have to be provided despite the fact that there is no law that says that a president or a presidential candidate has to do it),

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  87. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “FACTS? A bogus POS BC passed around IN THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS ROOM (now THERE’S a non-biased and technical “Document Specialist” crowd) is a FACT???”

    Yes it is a fact, and not only that but the Director of Health of Hawaii stated in writing that she had seen the physical copy of the long form birth certificate being prepared, and that was what was sent to Obama.

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  88. Nutjob

    March 2nd, 2012

    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/27/news/la-pn-hawaii-governor-obama-birth-certificate-20110427

    No he did not say that. He said he was looking for ADDITIONAL evidence, beyond the birth certificate, something that would further confirm the facts on the birth certificate

    He certainly DID say he’d release them, this is from the LAtimes, and not Rush or Fox news, and was in multiple other headlines….and what did he say….he wanted to obey the presidents rights to privacy.

    So his lawyers got a copy….not the original to finally put a nail in it.

    So how much does the MisTruth team pay Ellen?

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  89. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “How about the demands of a few million “persons”? When the the rule of law kick in? What’s the cutoff point? And, just who, exactly, SETS that point?”

    A few million is about 1% of 300 million. Let us suppose that 30 million, ten percent of the 300 million, were to ask Obama to pardon some federal prisoner. Would he have to do it? NO. How about 150 million? No, he still would not have to do it.

    Although we are his bosses, and he must try to do the best he can for the majority of us, he does not have to obey the requests of one, or 30 million or even 150 million people. But, of course, if he does not please 150 million, he is not likely to get re-elected.

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  90. I Luv Bacon

    March 2nd, 2012

    Natural. Born. Commie.

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  91. Nutjob

    March 2nd, 2012

    You can demand all you want. But there is no law that says that he has to show the records. Besides, the few who are asking to see his records are not his boss. His bosses are all 300 million of us.

    Guess it didn’t matter when the majority 68% of his bosses disagreed or didn’t want his shitty healthcare thrown on us.
    and yeah right, like your not going to vote for him.
    Odds are you’ve got an Obama bumpersticker on your prius and vote at multiple precincts with your deceased great grandparents.

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  92. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    I just cannot WAIT until November. The exploding Leftist heads throughout the Internet and the Media will be … spectacular!

    Leftist after Election Day

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  93. Nutjob

    March 2nd, 2012

    Federal officials do not have to submit to state court orders. And there has not been one for his school transcripts, nor has there been a federal court order.

    They do to be on the states voting ballots, stop beating around the bush and acting like you don’t know what he’s talking about.

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  94. muddjuice

    March 2nd, 2012

    So, Ellen. WHat happens if all the states decide to not put him on the ballot because of the BC issue? Can he just thumb his nose at that as well and stay in office?

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  95. Wraith

    March 2nd, 2012

    I noticed not the slightest acknowledgement of my post proving beyond doubt–using factual evidence that anyone can interpret for themselves–that the BC is BS. This is Part One of the standard Leftist tactic when they can’t refute reality: Ignore, Obfuscate, Lie.

    I win. :)

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  96. muddjuice

    March 2nd, 2012

    You can deflect all you want. The point is, considering that State court summons over the issue and the sheriff’s questioning of the BC, this is an issue on the hearts and minds of all Americans who cherish the Constitution, the rule of law, the founding fathers, the security of our nation and justice.

    I think you have outed yourself as someone who cares about nothing except making sure Obama gets back in office, whether or not it’s legal….

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  97. muddjuice

    March 2nd, 2012

    Ellen “Dream on. The last planned birther conference was cancelled for lack of interest.”

    You mean the one with Sheriff Arpaio? Seemed people paid attn to that one….

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  98. muddjuice

    March 2nd, 2012

    Ellen

    I just noticed that you destroyed your own argument earlier. You said that Jefferson, Madison and Wilson were “dual citizens”. The parents of Jefferson and Madison are irrelevant because there were grandfathered in. The parents of Wilson WERE US citizens. His mother is the one you said had dual citizenship. But you admitted that she was a US citizen, even if not by her choice.

    So there have been ZERO presidents with parents that were not US citizens – discounting the Founding Fathers who were grandfathered in. This would make Obama the FIRST, and would be in violation of the Constitution, clearly held over years of evidence to the contrary of your statements…

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  99. Nutjob

    March 2nd, 2012

    @muddjuice

    I suspect she took her backpeddling bike elsewhere like MSN, where the liberal moderate republicans roll over easier and don’t point out when they catch her contradicting herself.

    Watch and see if she doesn’t come back on here and say where?

    You know the old saying “the first stage to recovery is admitting you are in denial”.

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  100. muddjuice

    March 2nd, 2012

    Appears you are right Nut. I think he/she is getting more talking points from his/her handler…

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  101. Starfighter

    March 2nd, 2012

    What ellen fails to see is that the “birth certificate” released about a year ago is a blatant forgery. You will also notice that ellen said the “document” was passed around the WH press office. No it wasn’t. A PDF file was. And an electronic copy is not good enough. We want to see the original paper. I don’t care if “the press” has seen it. They’re all liberal bootlickers. And yes, if just one citizen demands that the person acting as president show proof of birth, he is required to do so. He is the commander in chief. His actions directly affect me. I am entitled as a citizen to know for a fact that the president is what he says he is. It may not be a law, but if the request is refused, then it calls into question everything about that person.

    Here are some of the items proving forgery.

    > There is an instance of font kerning that would not have been possible on a 1961 manual typewriter.

    > Being an electronic copy, there are instances of some of the check boxes being perfect pixel-for-pixel duplicates of others. This is a physical impossibility with a scanner. There will always be differences, even if by just a few pixels.

    > There are also instances of some of the letters being perfect pixel-for-pixel duplicates of others.

    And remember something ellen. All I have to do is to prove ONE instance of fraud, and it calls the entire document into question. And no, there is no such thing as “the document may be forged but it contains truthful information.” As courts have ruled in this country from the beginning, fraud vitiates everything.

    As for that completely ignorant argument about a birth notice in the Honolulu newspaper. If I had a grandchild born outside of the US, I could call the local paper and have a birth notice added as long as I paid for it. I wouldn’t have to put where the child was born, just that my daughter and son-in-law, or son and daughter-in-law, are now proud parents of a baby boy. I can decide what goes in the notice. So using the one for Obama as some type of proof is laughable at best; naive at worst.

    Neither I nor you have any factual information on where Obama was born. You may believe you do, but you don’t.

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  102. Nutjob

    March 2nd, 2012

    1 thing is for sure, he may or may not be a american but his ideology and left wing fanatacism isn’t american bred or born.

    Its the spawn of other failed societies and leftwing brainwashers that have infiltrated our institutions and policy makers.

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  103. Ten Megaton

    March 2nd, 2012

    Whether or not the prick was born in Hawaii is not the only issue with fraudman.

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  104. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “1 thing is for sure, he may or may not be a american but his ideology and left wing fanatacism isn’t american bred or born.”

    So vote against him. But he was born in Hawaii and he is a Natural Born US citizen.

    Re: “Whether or not the prick was born in Hawaii is not the only issue with fraudman.”

    So vote against him. But he was born in Hawaii and he is a Natural Born US citizen

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  105. Nutjob

    March 2nd, 2012

    http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=122509

    Maybe you’d like to non refute these also.

    Oh, look theres a rainbow.

    Now what was I saying, oh yeah how much does the MisTruth team pay?

    No wait, unlike you I can assure you the people on this website other then your troll handlers coaching you on the laptop next to you won’t be voting for yoru boy.

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  106. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “What ellen fails to see is that the “birth certificate” released about a year ago is a blatant forgery. You will also notice that ellen said the “document” was passed around the WH press office. No it wasn’t. A PDF file was..”

    BALONEY. The physical copy of the birth certificate, the one that the DOH of Hawaii said was given to Obama’s lawyer after having been photocopied onto security paper, was passed around in the White House press room, and it had the official seal of Hawaii on the back.

    Re: “. We want to see the original paper.”

    The official physical copy is the official document. You do not even want to see the birth certificate of any of the Republican candidates and yet you claim that you want to see the “original” (which is never taken out of the files) of Obama.

    Re: “And yes, if just one citizen demands that the person acting as president show proof of birth, he is required to do so. He is the commander in chief. His actions directly affect me. I am entitled as a citizen to know for a fact that the president is what he says he is. It may not be a law, but if the request is refused, then it calls into question everything about that person.”

    Dream on. You are entitled to vote against him if you do not think he has provided enough information. But that is all.

    Re: “> There is an instance of font kerning that would not have been possible on a 1961 manual typewriter”

    It is not kerning; it is skipping–which is not only possible but happened with manual typewriters all the time.

    Re: ” Being an electronic copy, there are instances of some of the check boxes being perfect pixel-for-pixel duplicates of others. This is a physical impossibility with a scanner. There will always be differences, even if by just a few pixels.”

    That is what you say, but that is not what these experts say:

    Dr. Neil Krawetz, an imaging software analysis author and experienced examiner of questioned images, said: “The PDF released by the White House shows no sign of digital manipulation or alterations. I see nothing that appears to be suspicious.”

    Nathan Goulding with The National Review: “We have received several e-mails today calling into question the validity of the PDF that the White House released, namely that there are embedded layers in the document. There are now several other people on the case. We looked into it and dismissed it. … I’ve confirmed that scanning an image, converting it to a PDF, optimizing that PDF, and then opening it up in Illustrator, does in fact create layers similar to what is seen in the birth certificate PDF. You can try it yourself at home.”

    John Woodman, independent computer professional, said in a series of videos that the claims of fakery that he examined were unfounded.

    Ivan Zatkovich, who has testified in court as a technology expert, and consultant to WorldNetDaily: “All of the modifications to the PDF document that can be identified are consistent with someone enhancing the legibility of the document.”

    No real expert has called Obama’s birth certificate a forgery.

    And:

    http://www.thefogbow.com/arpaio-report/

    And:

    http://www.obamabirthbook.com/http:/www.obamabirthbook.com/2012/03/on-the-release-of-report-from-sheriff-joe-arpaio-stating-barack-obamas-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/

    Re: “. All I have to do is to prove ONE instance of fraud..”

    But you haven’t. Enhancing a document is not the same thing as forging it.

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  107. Frosteetoes

    March 2nd, 2012

    His birth was filmed. What a cutie he was:

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  108. Nutjob

    March 2nd, 2012

    http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=122509

    Prisoners enhancing money orders in jail couldn’t agree more with you.
    They’ll be glad to know someone from the outside agrees with them

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  109. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “As for that completely ignorant argument about a birth notice in the Honolulu newspaper. If I had a grandchild born outside of the US, I could call the local paper and have a birth notice added as long as I paid for it.”

    Answer. Listen closely, you will be tested later. In 1961, the newspapers in Hawaii DID NOT ACCEPT BIRTH NOTICE ADVERTISING. Repeat, the papers did not take the notices of birth given to them by the relatives.

    What they did, and what they ONLY did was publish the official birth notices sent to them by the government of Hawaii. The government of Hawaii in 1961 sent out birth notices ONLY for children born in Hawaii, not for children born outside of Hawaii.

    Could the government of Hawaii have been fooled by relatives in 1961. No to that too.

    Why not? Because whenever there was a claim of a birth outside of a hospital, Hawaii insisted on signed witness statements.

    The birth notices in the newspapers were thus generated by the birth certificate. The proof that there was a birth certificate for Obama is (1) the short form and long form birth certificates themselves; (2) the confirmation of the facts on them by THREE Republican and several Democrat officials; (3) the birth notices in the Hawaii newspapers in 1961.

    IN addition to the birth certificate, there are the following facts:

    1. The absence of any document showing that Obama or Obama’s mother exited or entered the USA in 1961.

    2. The absence of any document from Kenya or any other country (except for forgeries, one done by a guy who claimed to have gotten the document in Kenya–but who absolutely refused to show that he had gone to Kenya.

    3. A witness who recalls having been told of Obama’s birth in Kapiolani Hospital, and having written home about it.

    Here is the photographic image of the physical copy of the long-form birth certificate that was passed around in the White House Press room, and the statement of the reporter who photographed it and her statement that she had felt the raised seal:

    http://lockerz.com/s/96540721

    Here is the photographic image of the physical copy of Obama’s short form birth certificate, front and back.

    http://factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

    Here is confirmation that it is the official and only birth certificate that Hawaii issues

    (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204619004574320190095246658.html)

    Here is the first of the confirmations by the officials in Hawaii.

    http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.html

    Notice where it says that there is an original birth certificate filed. Well, in 1961 foreign birth certificates, even those from other states, could not be filed in Hawaii. So the birth certificate in Obama’s files must be a Hawaii birth certificate.

    Here is the second of the confirmations by the officials in Hawaii.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm

    Notice where it says that the document in the files VERIFIES that Obama was born in Hawaii. So, not only is there an official Hawaiian birth certificate in the files, but it says right on it that Obama was born in Hawaii. Hawaii has never allowed the Department of Health to issue a birth document of any kind that says on it that anyone was born in Hawaii unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii, and that is what the officials in Hawaii have confirmed twice.

    And here is the confirmation by the former governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, a Republican, that says that Obama was born in Hawaii, in Kapiolani Hospital

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/05/hawaii_gov_lingle_answers_the.html

    And here is the statement of a witness who recalls being told of Obama’s birth in Hawaii, in Kapiolani Hospital, in 1961:

    http://www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article137495.ece

    Here are the birth notices of Obama’s birth in the Hawaii newspapers in 1961.

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php

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  110. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “So, Ellen. WHat happens if all the states decide to not put him on the ballot because of the BC issue? Can he just thumb his nose at that as well and stay in office?”

    Of course not. But that will not happen. In fact, not even one state will do what you say.

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  111. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    Okay, everyone, we can all give the OFA troll a break. “It” did say ONE truthful thing in all of her Leftist links and cut & pastes and Alinsky obfuscated ramblings:

    “I did not like Bush, but he was born in the USA adn was legally elected.”

    Find ONE Leftist that will admit that Bush was “legally elected”. I think we’ve found our diamond in the rough!
    (/sarc)

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  112. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    Here’s an oft-used phase to show “proof positive” of one thing or another pertaining to our “Mystery” president (read: Most Transparent president – EVER):

    “The absence of any document showing that Obama…

    “Absence of Document” IS this president’s legacy – other than the “Fundamental Transformation” of this once great country into a Leftist POS hellhole. Not that this has ANYTHING to do with his total Constitutional illegality, that is.

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  113. Jethro

    March 2nd, 2012

    Little does Ellen know that HE will eventually exhaust HIMSELF with all the blather. The IOTW crew has seen this before – many times. We can, and will blow apart any argument this troll can spew. My advice to you, Ellentroll, is to crawl away with your cut-and-paste “Media Matters” electronic crib sheet, back down to Mom’s basement, where she has made some more brownies for you. Later, you can masterbate while obsessing over your Rachel Maddow poster pinned over your bed.

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  114. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Absence of Document” IS this president’s legacy – other than the “Fundamental Transformation” of this once great country into a Leftist POS hellhole.”

    So vote against him. That is your right.

    Re: “Not that this has ANYTHING to do with his total Constitutional illegality, that is.”

    Obama was born in Hawaii and hence is a Natural Born US citizen.

    Re: “We can, and will blow apart any argument this troll can spew..”

    It is easy to call names and to claim that you have “blown arguments apart.” But you have no shown a thing. In fact, you haven’t even come up with a convincing answer to this:

    For those of you who still believe that Obama could have been born somewhere else than in Hawaii, a question for you:

    I’ll bet that you know (but, actually, you may have forgotten) that the US government requires, and has long required, that a child being carried into the USA must have some kind of official travel document to be admitted. This is usually a US passport for the child. Or, it could be the fact that the child is entered on the mother’s US passport. Or, it could be a US visa for the child on a foreign passport. Without one of those, we would not let the child into the country.

    So, IF Obama really had been born in Kenya (or in any country other than the USA), he would have had to have one of those documents–wouldn’t he? His family would have had to show the passport, wouldn’t they? To show the passport, they would have had to have applied for the passport or the visa for Obama. And, if Obama really were born in Kenya (or another country), they would have had to have applied for it in the US consulate or embassy there, wouldn’t they?

    Such applications are FILED by the US government. The documents exist in multiple files, the actual application itself, communication about it with Washington, entries in the passport file, entries in the application file, entries in the places where the child is carried into the USA. The Bush Administration was in charge of the State Department and the INS for eight years before Obama was elected. Don’t you think that they would have checked the claim that he was born outside the USA?

    All they had to do was find one of those files and McCain would win the election.

    Well, they never did. There is no such file.

    So the question is, do you think that the Bush Administration was part of the plot?

    Do you think that the files, the documents, the application for the documents, the communications about the documents were all lost or hidden? Remember, they are in multiple files, the file of the passport holder, the files of applications for passports, the files in the US embassy in foreign countries, the files in the State Department and in the INS (which would have checked in Obama at an entry point if he had actually traveled in 1961)–and yet no document has been found. Why not?

    The absence of the travel document, plus the Hawaii birth certificate, plus the confirmation of the facts on it by three Republican (and several Democrat) officials, plus the birth notices in the Hawaii newspapers in 1961, plus the witness who remembers being told of the birth and writing home about it (to her father, named Stanley, about the unusual event of a birth to a woman named Stanley). All this is evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii.

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  115. Jethro

    March 2nd, 2012

    Ellen – You’re so silly!
    Everyone else went home hours ago.
    You’re like the dumbass kid who stays out on the ball field when everyone else goes home for dinner, because you know your dinner is gonna suck.

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  116. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Ellen – You’re so silly!
    Everyone else went home hours ago.”

    Apparently YOU didn’t go home.

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  117. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    Foreign National Parent
    Natural Born Citizen

    These two things DO NOT go together. No matter WHERE the person was born. Even Sesame Street Muppets know that!

    We keep blowing holes in your arguments and you keep repeating the SAME CANARDS. THIS is why I usually do not debate Leftists face to face – the education process is so tedious when the person is so brainwashed and illiterate that no headway can ever be made. Such as with OFA AttackWatch trolls.

    Joe Walsh said it best, I believe, when he said, “You Can’t Argue With A Sick Mind”. And, ellen-dude, you have shown yourself to be one of the all-time classic sickos.

    Congrats. You are finally “best” at something.

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  118. Nutjob

    March 2nd, 2012

    All they had to do was find one of those files and McCain would win the election.

    Well, they never did. There is no such file.

    So the question is, do you think that the Bush Administration was part of the plot?

    Do you think that the files, the documents, the application for the documents, the communications about the documents were all lost or hidden? Remember, they are in multiple files, the file of the passport holder, the files of applications for passports, the files in the US embassy in foreign countries, the files in the State Department and in the INS (which would have checked in Obama at an entry point if he had actually traveled in 1961)–and yet no document has been found. Why not

    Had Newt Gingrich or someone with a spine been on the republican ticket, it would’ve gotten checked out. McCain didn’t want to be involved in mudslinging, didn’t want to pick a fight and like any other republican after Bush because of the media and lefties would’ve been pounded as a right wing extremist and birther.

    McCain thought he could win playing nice.
    and yes they are all hidden, by executive order, all files on him, his school, travel everything, thats what he meant when mr transparent ordered ALL files sealed.
    Otherwise at the very least you’d see his grades, but he won’t even allow that.

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  119. Bad Brad

    March 2nd, 2012

    I think Ellen is actually a conservative and fucking with you guys.

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  120. Jethro

    March 2nd, 2012

    Awwww Ellen….
    I just came back to see if you are still here… waiting, desperately, for someone to respond to your pathetic rehashing of the same talking points over and over.
    If you don’t get it, you never will – a fraud has taken place and eventually someone will pay. I’m eagerly waiting to see whom Barry will throw under the bus first.
    His candidacy for a second fraudulent term is unraveling. If you don’t see it, then it’s obvious you are a lost cause. And it’s “useful idiots” like you that get whacked in the head with a shovel and tossed into a ditch first.
    Begone!

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  121. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “a fraud has taken place.”

    Answer. The only fraud is the birthers claim that Obama was born outside of the USA. Other than that there is no fraud. There are birther claims by unnamed “experts”–whose experience and objectivity have not been established–that there is a fraud.

    But no Hawaii official or recognized document expert supports them.

    Re: “Begone!”

    NO. I’ll stick around and refute any more lies. And by the way, I do not post to convince you or other birthers. I only post on the chance that there might be someone with an open mind reading this site.

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  122. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “Had Newt Gingrich or someone with a spine been on the republican ticket, it would’ve gotten checked out. ”

    In fact, the McCain campaign DID check the birther allegations, and found that there was nothing behind them.

    Like the other three Republican candidates for president, Newt Gingrich has said that he believes that Obama was born in Hawaii and is a Natural Born US citizen.

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  123. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “yes they are all hidden, by executive order, all files on him, his school, travel everything, thats what he meant when mr transparent ordered ALL files sealed.
    Otherwise at the very least you’d see his grades, but he won’t even allow that.”

    No they are not sealed. The executive order you are referring to made it harder, not easier, for a president to seal records. And it applied ONLY to federal presidential records, not to college records, medical records, law firm records, corporate records, passport records or birth certificate records.”

    All of those are simply covered under general privacy laws, which apply to everyone. And, guess what, none of the Republican candidates for president has shown his college records. They haven’t even shown their birth certificates.

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  124. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re:

    “Foreign National Parent
    Natural Born Citizen” not going together.

    Since the meaning of Natural Born Citizen comes from the common law and refers to the PLACE of birth, they do.

    “Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are “natural born citizens” and eligible to be President….”—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]

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  125. Jethro

    March 2nd, 2012

    NANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANAN

    Ellen – I think you were stupid enough to check the notify box.
    How many notifications do you want?

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  126. Jethro

    March 2nd, 2012

    1

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  127. Jethro

    March 2nd, 2012

    2

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  128. Jethro

    March 2nd, 2012

    3

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  129. Jethro

    March 2nd, 2012

    4

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  130. Tennessee Vol

    March 2nd, 2012

    Ellen . . . I have two suggestions for you. First, admit that you’re a guy. (Yes, I know you’re a guy.)

    Second, go buy a large jar of Vaseline, coat your entire head from the neck up. Be sure to put lots on your chin area, cheek bones, nose, forehead and ears. Doing so will make it a whole lot easier to pull your pompous head out of your ass.

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  131. Nutjob

    March 2nd, 2012

    No they are not sealed. The executive order you are referring to made it harder, not easier, for a president to seal records. And it applied ONLY to federal presidential records, not to college records, medical records, law firm records, corporate records, passport records or birth certificate records.”

    Oh well I guess you plan on posting his grades that no one else can get access to or his application for financial aid. Is this a perk of the TruthTeam?
    Newt also said that before the most recent blather by the governer of Hawaii who since backtracked.
    and you can pretty much bet the only reason the other republicans aren’t going after it isn’t because they don’t think its true.

    Because if it is, it’ll totally discount them as a complete…. me……… nutjob.
    Which would be a complete halt to their career and existance (yeah I said career, which is quite pathetic for any of these bozos to be a career anything, being in the real world they’d be unemployed or facing charges)

    I didn’t believe the birth certificate issue until recently after seeing the way this clown acts and what he’s done.
    Now, I wouldn’t put anything past this guy.

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  132. Mr.Gates

    March 2nd, 2012

    There has been a tectonic shift in the voting field since 2008.

    At that time, 5% more voters self identified as Democratic. Obama won by 5% of the popular vote. Today 3% more voters self identify as Republican.

    Republican voter enthusiasm is up 9% compared with 2008. Democratic voter enthusiasm is down 34% compared with 2008.

    Obama CAN’T win re-election.

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  133. ellen

    March 2nd, 2012

    Re: “pompous head out of…”

    You don’t convince anyone by swearing.

    Re: “Obama CAN’T win re-election.”

    That is entirely possible. But he was born in Hawaii and is a Natural Born US citizen.

    Re: “Oh well I guess you plan on posting his grades that no one else can get access to or his application for financial aid.”

    No. I cannot get access to his grades or his application for financial aid either, not because they are “sealed” but because they are covered under privacy laws.

    The same privacy laws apply to the Republican candidates for president, and neither I nor you can get access to their grades or applications for financial aid either.

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  134. The Doktor

    March 2nd, 2012

    re: Tennessee Vol guy/girl” thing.

    This “ellen” thing answered the call. What call, you ask?

    Come on over to the “Softer Side Of Soros”!!
    Join the Obama For America AttackWatch group of unsure gender types that have no f-in’ clue as to what Reality is! Spread this obfuscation throughout the land to make America a Socialist paradise for all of the Ignorant Masses!!

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  135. Mr.Gates

    March 3rd, 2012

    Supreme Court Cases that Cite “Natural Born Citizen” as One Born on U.S. Soil to Citizen Parents -

    Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)
    Shanks v DuPont, 28 U.S. 3 Pet. 242 242 (1830)
    Dred Scott v Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857)
    Minor v Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1875)
    United States v Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)
    Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939)

    Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875)
    “The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.”

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  136. Nutjob

    March 3rd, 2012

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/obama/presidential.html

    Its called executive order.
    You can make a request but if him and Holder (the same guy having honesty issues on gun running and sueing states against voter ID)says no….then thats it unless ordered by the next president or a court order.

    So apply under the FOI act and see if you don’t get audited, i can pretty much guarantee you…..you will not get them from mr transparency.

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/obama/presidential.html

    Heres kenneth allens attempt.
    So no he is using executive order blocking everything.
    Not to mention 2 state department employess were fired for looking into his passports, travel and school records in march 2008 and were terminated, the cooperating victim ended up being shot dead and no charges ever filed.

    So hows your head feel, are you up to the harrassment or being possibly snuffed out for asking too many questions?

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  137. The Doktor

    March 3rd, 2012

    Why is it that I can Google most everything that this troll seems to have “Cut & Paste” and many hits from leftist sites come up with the exact same information??

    Why?

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  138. Nutjob

    March 3rd, 2012

    Because your computer doesn’t have a rightwing filter like hers, that also says do not audit…one of ours!

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  139. Mr.Gates

    March 3rd, 2012

    The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)
    “…The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens…”

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  140. The Doktor

    March 3rd, 2012

    Uh oh. There’s a knock on the door and I didn’t order pizza!

    (goes to answer door)

    Naw – just the neighbor wanting to borrow some cat litter and ammo. Never mind.

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  141. Mr.Gates

    March 3rd, 2012

    Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857)
    The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.

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  142. The Doktor

    March 3rd, 2012

    Thank you, Mr. Gates.

    Expecting FIFTH repeat of “Natural Born Citizen” requirements canard from troll in 5, 4, 3, 2….

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  143. Mr.Gates

    March 3rd, 2012

    Doktor – Thank you too!

    United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)

    At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.

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  144. Mr.Gates

    March 3rd, 2012

    Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939),
    was a decision by the Supreme Court of the United States that a child born in the United States to naturalized parents on U.S. soil is a natural born citizen and that the child’s natural born citizenship is not lost if the child is taken to and raised in the country of the parents’ origin, provided that upon attaining the age of majority, the child elects to retain U.S. citizenship “and to return to the United States to assume its duties.” Not only did the court rule that she did not lose her native born Citizenship but it upheld the lower courts decision that she is a “natural born Citizen of the United States” because she was born in the USA to two naturalized U.S. Citizens.

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  145. Bad Brad

    March 3rd, 2012

    Yep, and she’s kicking your guys asses. Never seen anybody type that long.Gotta be a record, and she’s laughing her ass off. Tap out.

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  146. Nutjob

    March 3rd, 2012

    You mean by not answering back to my link when she said the Democratic governor didn’t say he was going to release the birth records?

    Or that he has denied the FOI to any and everybody that has asked for his records or transcripts.ie kieth allens lawsuit under the FOI

    Or to refute the other civil liberties that he has infringed on with no rebuttal.

    Or the state department employeees fired and 1 dead who were looking into his files.

    Yeah I feel so beaten by her cut and post non answering evasiveness.
    Maybe I should try dodgeball or bedtime story telling.

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  147. The Doktor

    March 3rd, 2012

    @Bad Brad – And I thought it was just non-political hemorrhoids.

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  148. Bad Brad

    March 3rd, 2012

    The Doktor, That’s funny. I dont think hemorrhoids are political by nature. I could be wrong. But all things considered she’s gonna be typing here until this time next year. You gotta pick your battles bro, and this is not working.

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  149. Bad Brad

    March 3rd, 2012

    By the way Dok, I was on your side from the gitgo, but you need to pick your battles. Hard to beat a maniac.

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  150. The Doktor

    March 3rd, 2012

    @Bad Brad – I had an off night and delighted in the tweaking. I did pick my battle, thank you, and had fun wasting the time of a paid OFA troll.

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  151. Tennessee Vol

    March 3rd, 2012

    “ellen” isn’t a “she”; ellen is a “HE”. I know who he is, and he’s got his head so far up his ass that he won’t see sunshine for years.

    Hey ellen . . . you write that “you don’t convince by swearing”. Fuck you and your fucking arrogance.

    FACT: Obama has spent upwards of $3,000,000.00 ($3 MILLION) of his own money to HIDE all of his records. He’s hiding something, or many things.

    A sheriff has now proven what has been known for nearly a year, that Obama’s long-form birth certificate is a forgery. The date-stamp on his selective service form is a forgery.

    Everything about Obama is a sham, a fraud, a fictional account. He’s a con, a liar, a dishonest son-of-a-bitch. And don’t let his marriage to Michelle fool you; Obama’s gay (not that there’s anything wrong with it!).

    We have a usurper in the White House, plain and simple. And he’s hell-bent on destroying the country from the INSIDE. It’s how he was raised, it’s how he was trained, it’s how he was conditioned. He’s doing it right before our eyes.

    I’m done with this post.

    And ellen . . . fuck you again.

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  152. Jethro

    March 3rd, 2012

    5

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  153. Jethro

    March 3rd, 2012

    6

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  154. Jethro

    March 3rd, 2012

    7

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  155. Jethro

    March 3rd, 2012

    8

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  156. ellen

    March 3rd, 2012

    Re “Supreme Court Cases that Cite “Natural Born Citizen” as One Born on U.S. Soil to Citizen Parents -”

    There are no Supreme Court cases that say that a Natural Born Citizen requires two citizen parents. There are birther lawyers who have made selective quotations (in the case of Minor vs Hapersett deliberately ignoring the sentences that says that there are other views and that for the purposes of this case we do not have to decide).

    The Wong Kim Ark case decided, and stated very clearly that the meaning of Natural Born Citizen comes from the common law (not Vattel) and that every child born in the USA is Natural Born.

    Here is what it said:

    “It thus clearly appears that, by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the Crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, the jurisdiction of the English Sovereign, and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign State or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.

    III. The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established.”

    That is why Meese, Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, said:

    “Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are “natural born citizens” and eligible to be President….”—- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]

    That is why, despite an effort by birthers and two-fers, none of the 600 or so members of the Electoral College changed her or his vote to vote against Obama. That is why the US Congress confirmed Obama’s election unanimously. That is why the chief justice of the USA, a conservative who knows the Supreme Court precedents, swore in Obama (twice).

    The meaning of Natural Born Citizen comes from the common law, as the US Supreme Court ruled. There is also historical evidence. Here is how the term was used in 1803, shortly after the Constitution went into effect:

    “Prior to the adoption of the constitution, the people inhabiting the different states might be divided into two classes: natural born citizens, or those born within the state, and aliens, or such as were born out of it. The first, by their birth-right, became entitled to all the privileges of citizens; the second, were entitled to none, but such as were held out and given by the laws of the respective states prior to their emigration. …St. George Tucker, BLACKSTONE’S COMMENTARIES: WITH NOTES OF REFERENCE TO THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA. (1803)

    Notice that the quotation refers ONLY to the place of birth. Natural Born Citizens were “those born within a state.”

    And here is how it was used in 1829:

    “Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity.”—William Rawle, A VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. 2d ed. (1829)

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  157. ellen

    March 3rd, 2012

    Re: “You mean by not answering back to my link when she said the Democratic governor didn’t say he was going to release the birth records?”

    The Democratic governor did not say that. A birther site said that he said it, but he didn’t. What he apparently said that was he was going to try to find proof in addition to the birth certificate records. But he did not say that he would release the original, or even the long-form (which was not done until later and by a special decision of the DOH of Hawaii).

    The fact, however, is that Obama has released both his short-form and long-form birth certificates, both the images of them online and the physical copies shown to the press. The physical copy of the long-form was even passed around in the White House Press Room and everyone got a chance to hold it, examine it, and feel the seal on the back. One reporter even photographed it.

    Here is the photographic image of the physical copy of the long-form birth certificate that was passed around in the White House Press room, and the statement of the reporter who photographed it and her statement that she had felt the raised seal:

    http://lockerz.com/s/96540721

    Here is the photographic image of the physical copy of Obama’s short form birth certificate, front and back.

    http://factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

    Here is confirmation that it is the official certificate that Hawaii issues:

    (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204619004574320190095246658.html)

    Here is the first of the confirmations by the officials in Hawaii.

    http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.html

    Notice where it says that there is an original birth certificate filed. Well, in 1961 foreign birth certificates, even those from other states, could not be filed in Hawaii. So the birth certificate in Obama’s files must be a Hawaii birth certificate.

    Here is the second of the confirmations by the officials in Hawaii.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm

    Notice where it says that the document in the files VERIFIES that Obama was born in Hawaii. So, not only is there an official Hawaiian birth certificate in the files, but it says right on it that Obama was born in Hawaii. Hawaii has never allowed the Department of Health to issue a birth document of any kind that says on it that anyone was born in Hawaii unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii, and that is what the officials in Hawaii have confirmed twice.

    And here is the confirmation by the former governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, a Republican, that says that Obama was born in Hawaii, in Kapiolani Hospital

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/05/hawaii_gov_lingle_answers_the.html

    And here is the statement of a witness who recalls being told of Obama’s birth in Hawaii, in Kapiolani Hospital, in 1961:

    http://www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article137495.ece

    AND here are the birth notices of Obama’s birth in the Hawaii newspapers in 1961.

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php

    NONE of the Republican candidates for president has even shown his birth certificate.

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  158. Tennessee Vol

    March 3rd, 2012

    I had said I was done with this post, but decided to come back and see if Ellen-the-man had responded.

    I wasn’t disappointed.

    Hey Ellen . . . I have a new name for you. It’s “CAPALA”. That’s an acronym for “Copy And Paste Arrogant Liberal Asshole.”

    I tried hard to fit “Fucking Troll” in there, but couldn’t.

    Like I said before, Capala, your bitch-boy Obama is a liar, con, fraud, usurper, and more. His whole life’s account is one big fictional story. So that “We the People” don’t learn the truth, Obama has spent $3,000,000.00 to date to cover his tracks. That’s THREE FRICKING MILLION DOLLARS. No president in the history of this great nation has done anything even remotely close to this in an attempt to cover their past. Then too, no other president was living a complete sham and lie about their entire life’s history. No other president was trying to hide where they were born, and to whom, and when, and when they traveled abroad, and how they paid for college, and what their grades were, and who actually wrote their books, and who actually bought their house, and whose Social Security number they’re really using, and how they got their house loan, and so on and so on and so on.

    With Obama we have a guy whose entire life is a complete fabrication, a man who has absolutely no applicable experience who was able to con and dazzle his way into the office of POTUS. Even a Hollywood screenwriter couldn’t come up with something this farfetched. And yet it happened before our very eyes.

    I’ll say it again: Obama-the-usurper has spend $3M to hide his tracks. Defend that, Capala! And do so without merely copying and pasting.

    It’s a simple question, Capala: If Obama has nothing to hide, then why has he spent $3M to hide ALL of his documents?

    WHAT IS HE HIDING? WHAT DOESN’T HE WANT KNOWN? WHAT’S THE BIG SECRET(S)???????????

    Obama = Usurper

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  159. ellen

    March 3rd, 2012

    Re: “It’s a simple question, Capala: If Obama has nothing to hide, then why has he spent $3M to hide ALL of his documents?”

    Simple answer Tennessee. HE DIDN’T.

    He did not spend anything. Who says that he did?

    There were lawsuits that alleged he should not be on the ballot. He spent money fighting them. He never fought any lawsuits just for records. In fact, there weren’t any lawsuits just for records.

    So, the $3 million figure was all made up by birthers. You appear to be one of the ones making it up.

    Obama has not released his school transcripts, etc. But then neither have the Republican candidates for president. Obama HAS released his birth certificate. They haven’t. What have they got to hide?

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  160. muddjuice

    March 3rd, 2012

    There’s no mystery around other nominees. There is a lot of unanswered questions about Obama. You probably believe that 9/11 was an inside job and there was a second gunman on the grassy knoll, but you don’t want to know any truth about Obama. You take him at his word without any proof.

    Not including the Founders, who were grandfathered in, there has never been a president in the History of the US without parents who were citizens of the US, except Barry. Why?

    Because we understood the conflict of interest and made it clear, through court rulings and case law, that the president had to be a NBC and his parents had to be citizens, even if the parents were not born here….

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  161. Tennessee Vol

    March 3rd, 2012

    Gotcha, Ellen. (Oops, forgot. Your new name is Capala, an acronym for “Copy And Past Arrogant Liberal Asshole”.)

    Candidly, you’re wrong . . . AGAIN.

    Many dozens of researchers – representing “We The People” have attempted to “fill in the blanks” of Obama’s life. To put it bluntly, we want to know WHO THE HELL HE IS????

    He’s the president who promised while campaigning that there would be a “more open government” and “full disclosure”. Yet he will not release his Harvard records or his Columbia records or his Occidental records. He won’t even release his Columbia thesis. He presents a forged long-form birth certificate in April 2011. All of his legislative records from his time while an Illinois State Senator are missing, and HE claims his scheduling records during those years are also lost. Also missing are his records for when he attended Punahou School, the elite college preg high school he attended.

    SO WHAT’S HE HIDING?

    The fact is, dear Ellen/Capala, is that Obama’s high-priced lawyers have built wals around Obama’s various records, or those attorneys have made those records disappear. Those attorneys cost money, LOTS of money. The most conservative estimates are that he’s spent $2.5-$3M. Sounds like a lot, however much money is needed because so many documents need to be hidden (see below).

    SO WHY WOULD OBAMA SPEND SO MUCH MONEY TO HIDE ALL OF HIS RECORDS?

    Answer the question, Ellen/Capala? Don’t dodge the issue with your bull-shit “bait and switch” tactic. WHY WOULD OBAMA SPEND SO MUCH MONEY TO HIDE ALL OF HIS RECORDS?

    I’ll answer it for you . . . he wants his records hidden because his records will shed light on his citizenship and birth.

    Now we know – thanks to good Sheriff Arpaio – that Obama’s long-form birth certificate is a forgery. And we know that Obama’s Select Service date stamp was forged.

    All of this makes one wonder just how much other stuff Obama has that has been forged?

    Obama himself could put all of this to rest simply by releasing his records. But he won’t do that, will he?

    Everywhere a person looks into Obama’s background they find records that are sealed, websites that have been scrubbed, documents that have been altered, questions that are unanswered, and much deception.

    Don’t even get me started on the NUMEROUS SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS that Obama has used over the years!!!!

    Like I’ve said in earlier posts, Obama is a con, a fraud, a liar, a con, and a usurper.

    As a citizen of this great nation, I want to know who my president is. I want to know EVERYTHING about him.

    WHAT IS OBAMA HIDING?

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  162. The Doktor

    March 3rd, 2012

    So far, Hussein has told the truth twice. Once was 5 days before the 2008 election when he claimed he was days away from “Fundamentally Transforming the United States of America”. Which is to say that he planned to destroy the America that was great (morally and exceptionally) and the most powerful (militarily and economically) country the world has ever seen. This he has been doing regardless of the Constitutional restraints (put into place to control such power grabs) that he has ignored (taking over private businesses and industries and disregarding LEGAL procedures that should have been followed – Bankruptcy and Chapter 11) and the majority will of the people (ObamaCare passed against the will of over 65% of the country and the fact that it is unconstitutional).

    The other “truth” of Hussein that he talked about before his selection is that his energy policies would necessitate huge rises in electric and natural gas and gasoline prices. Anyone dispute that that particular scenario HAS NOT occurred? (Anyone with a brain, that is, which would obviate the need for ellen’s rejoinder).

    And all of this massive destruction has been caused by the Hussein that IS KNOWN. Just imagine what the HIDDEN Hussein has planned.

    My wife believes that he is the Anti-Christ. I have seen nothing to disprove that belief.

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  163. alex

    March 3rd, 2012

    sheriff arpaio evidence of fraud and forgery by obama must be sent to a judge to get criminal charges on obama. then congress will act–congress is intimidated by obama use of the irs.—they need criminal charges to start impeachment—-are the cia and fbi involved in this cover-up of illegal alien obama–i think so -why is there complete censorship of the press and tv and radio of sheriff arpaio`s evidence on obama the forger.

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  164. ellen

    March 3rd, 2012

    Re: “The fact is, dear Ellen/Capala, is that Obama’s high-priced lawyers have built wals around Obama’s various records, or those attorneys have made those records disappear. Those attorneys cost money, LOTS of money. The most conservative estimates are that he’s spent $2.5-$3M. Sounds like a lot, however much money is needed because so many documents need to be hidden (see below).”

    Answer. This has all been made up by birthers. They made up the figure that Obama spent. They made up the claim that there were lawsuits against Obama to get facts about him. There were no such lawsuits. You have not shown that there were lawsuits. You just repeated the claim.

    Quite a bit is known about Obama. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_obama

    Re: “There’s no mystery around other nominees. ”

    Actually, there is. Why doesn’t Romney answer the charge that he was born in Rumania? You haven’t heard that charge. Well, it is made up, just the way that the charge that Obama was born in Kenya was MADE UP.

    RE: You probably believe that 9/11 was an inside job and there was a second gunman on the grassy knoll…”

    I don’t believe either of those things. But what I believe is totally irrelevant. The facts are that Obama was born in Hawaii, and that he has shown the long form and short form birth certificate of Hawaii, and that the facts on it were confirmed by THREE Republican officials (and some Democrats) and further confirmed by the birth notice in the Hawaii newspapers.

    Re: “but you don’t want to know any truth about Obama. ”

    The truth is that he was born in Hawaii, showed his birth certificate (unlike the Republican candidates), had the facts on it confirmed by three Republican officials (and some Democrats) in Hawaii and that this is further confirmed by the birth notices in the newspapers, and still further confirmed by the witness who wrote home after being told of Obama’s birth (to her father, named Stanley, about the unusual event of a child being born to a woman named Stanley).

    Re: “You take him at his word without any proof.”

    A birth certificate and the confirmation of officials and the birth notices in the newspapers (which were sent to the papers only by the DOH of Hawaii) and the witness statement is proof.

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  165. ellen

    March 3rd, 2012

    Re: “NUMEROUS SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS that Obama has used over the years!!!!”

    Once again the birther web sites have let you down. They imply that having multiple social security numbers is unusual. In fact, millions of people have them, caused mainly by millions of errors committed by Social Security Administration clerks over the years.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/38678753/How_Many_Social_Security_Numbers_Do_You_Have

    http://www.securityworldnews.com/2010/08/12/20-million-americans-have-multiple-social-security-numbers-associated-with-their-name/

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501465_162-20013733-501465.html

    The Connecticut SS number was caused by a data entry error. SS numbers were generated by the zip code of the applicant’s address. Obama’s address in Hawaii was in zip code 96814, and the zip code for Danbury, CT. is 06814.

    That is why no one in Congress is calling for an investigation of Obama’s Social Security number.

    Ellen, you’re putting too many links in your comments, that’s why they are being held for moderation. – bfh

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  166. The Doktor

    March 4th, 2012

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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  167. Tuesday

    March 4th, 2012

    I am late to this thread, but here is something someone sent to me that was checking into this just in case Obama was not born in the US…

    ‘I was looking over the stuff and realized there is a problem if Obama was born in Kenya. His mother was 4 months shy of her 19th birthday when Obama was born. The laws at the time said that in order for the child to be born a US citizen on foreign soil the mother had to be a US resident for 10 year, 5 of those years after her 14th birthday. That means from age 14-19 she would have had to live in the US. She was not yet 19, therefore the automatic citizenship does not apply and Barack would be only a NATURALIZED citizen. Yikes!’

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  168. ellen

    March 4th, 2012

    Tuesday said: “‘I was looking over the stuff and realized there is a problem if Obama was born in Kenya.”

    Obama was born in Hawaii, as his birth certificate–short form and long form–and the confirmation of three Republican officials, and the further confirmation of the birth notices in the newspapers (always sent to the papers by the DOH of Hawaii and not placed by relatives) and the witness who wrote home about the birth all say. Oh, and Obama’s Kenyan grandmother said repeatedly in the taped interview that Obama was born in Hawaii, and she said in another interview—with the Hartford Courant newspaper—that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter from Hawaii.

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  169. ellen

    March 5th, 2012

    Re: “So there have been ZERO presidents with parents that were not US citizens – discounting the Founding Fathers who were grandfathered in. ”

    There have been seven US presidents who had foreign parents including Obama.

    Thomas Jefferson
    Andrew Jackson
    James Buchanan
    Chester A. Arthur
    Woodrow Wilson
    Herbert Hoover
    Obama.

    Of these two fell under the grandfather clause, Jefferson and Jackson.

    As to the others, the ones who were not under the grandfather clause:

    Birthers claim that James Buchanan’s father was naturalized before his birth. Unfortunately for them, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF IT. No evidence at all.

    Birthers claim that Chester A. Arthur hid the fact that his father was not a US citizen. Unfortunately for them, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF IT. There is no evidence that Chester A. Arthur kept his father’s citizenship secret. So, it is likely that people knew about it when he was picked to run as Garfield’s vice president.

    And Wilson’s and Hoover’s mothers were foreign citizens.

    Birthers say that they had been naturalized before the births. Actually, they were only made US citizens due to laws that made women who married US men automatically US citizens. That is hardly the same thing as being naturalized, in which you have to give up your citizenship in the foreign country and swear an oath. Because Woodrow Wilson’s mother never formally gave up her British citizenship, Woodrow was, at birth, a dual citizen.

    Turning back to Jackson. BOTH of his parents were not US citizens at the time that he was born. Neither of his parents were US citizens at the time that he was born.

    Granted that he was under the grandfather clause. But rationally IF the citizenship of the parents really had an effect on a person’s loyalty Jackson would be the least loyal of presidents, far less loyal than those with two citizen parents and less loyal than those with one citizen parent. Yet Jackson–with two foreign parents–was the most fiercely loyal of them all.

    So, there is the argument for biology, which is more rational than law. IF we have a large number of presidents with foreign parents, and there is no evidence that they were more disloyal than presidents with two citizen parents, then what is the evidence that presidents whose parents are not US citizens are more disloyal than presidents whose parents were US citizens. And, if there is no evidence to convince us–then what is the evidence that the writers of the US Constitution believed it either???

    If we today do not believe that a US-born child of foreign parents will tend to be less loyal than the US-born child of US parents (and Jackson’s loyalty shows that the US-born children of foreigners can be highly loyal), why believe that the writers of the US Constitution believed it either?

    If they had believed it, they would have said it. But they didn’t say it. All that they did was use the term Natural Born, which referred at the time to the place of birth, not to the parents.

    So there is no evidence that the meaning of Natural Born refers to the parents. There is evidence, from writings of the day, that it referred to the PLACE of birth. There IS evidence that the founders believed that a person’s loyalty would be affected by the PLACE of birth. In fact, that is what James Madison believed, and there is a quotation to that effect–very similar to one by Blackstone, by the way.

    Madison said:

    “It is an established maxim that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth however derives its force sometimes from place and sometimes from parentage, but in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States; it will therefore be unnecessary to investigate any other.”

    Blackstone said:

    “…every man owes natural allegiance where he is born, and cannot owe two such allegiances, or serve two masters, at once.’

    So, two things. The writers of the US Constitution believed that a person has only one allegiance, to the country where he was born; and (2) the meaning of Natural Born refers to the place of birth, not to the parents.

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